Ubuntu Touch Q&A 150 Saturday 5th October 19:00 UTC
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Hi! Community stalker here! I used to stalk/read the Dev sync notes, but they haven't been updated since April. Will they be back, or are you hiding from me?
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A arubislander pinned this topic on
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Without getting political, I feel like Telegram is a strange choice as a community platform. I choose to avoid Telegram for political and personal reasons that I'd love to express here but this really isn't the place for it. I would like to better understand the relationship between Conanical and Telegram. Maybe someone could PM me and enlighten me.
My question, if ubports has its own messaging board then why does UT, who claim to give you the "freedom of choice", force their users to use what is basically proprietary software to get complete access to the UT experience? Not to mention Telegram requires "VERY" sensitive data to use their platform.
As it stands, one does NOT have access to the full UT experience if they don't have Telegram, creating segregation in the community. I would say that this goes against the essence of linux.
Wouldn't it make more sense to centralize the UT experience here at ubports.com? By being centralized, you aren't forcing your community to release sensitive data to questionable companies that are worth billions of dollars.
Or we could change "We want you to be free" to "we want you to use Telegram".
I'd be interested to know how people feel about this.
Time --Oneplus Nord N100--
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Hi @Equareo
Sorry we couldn't answer your question during the Q&A.
I don't have the answer to your question, but I will have a look at it and try to see if I can find who did it and why it stopped. -
@UBportsNews Hello and thank you for the q&a!
Can someone please explain the news about VoLTe in more detail? What wll happen next, is there a plan for implementation? And which devices will be able to do this?
with many thanks for all your hard work on it -
Sorry we couldn't answer your question during the Q&A.
To answer your question, the community is organized around the tools that our members have access to.
Teleports is well supported and open enough to accommodate for our notification service, that's why it has been a go-to for the community.
We have channels on Matrix, but it needs more people to moderate it and bridging with Telegram has been spotty...Also we don't force anyone to go to Telegram, the forum is fine and better IMHO to find helpful information.
If people expect "customer service" via "whatsapp", the closest they can come to with Ubuntu Touch is our Telegram channels.
But hey we are all for freedom, so if they prefer to reach out using another mean, then great.I don't understand what makes you write this:
As it stands, one does NOT have access to the full UT experience if they don't have Telegram, creating segregation in the community.
As we say in my profession "You say that because you're angry".
That's some kind of joke based on the fact that stating someone is angry makes them angry. We use it when some unfair argument is made by someone... -
Hi @messayisto
I don't know much about it.
But from what I understand, work has been made on Qualcomm and on Mediatek SoC with various success on a couple of devices.The news today was that a plugin for Ofono allowing VoLTE for mediatek devices has been published.
I think this is only for 24.04 ; the development devices is the Volla X-23 and on the upcoming Quintus should benefit from it.
The hope is that this implementation for this specific phone will work on most Mediatek devices with Noble.
Or maybe porters can try to integrate this plugin in their current port, but I'm not so sure about that.For our US friends, it means the Quintus (international version) might be the first device allowing VoLTE working for them but some frequency stuff might be at play, so be aware of this.
There is still some work to do on the Qualcomm side (i.e. Fairphone 5) with the hope that it will also work for other Qualcomm devices...
So yeah, very good news, but let's not get too crazy about it, there are still a lot of uncertainties.
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If I understand correctly you want to bring back the Ubuntu Edge phone that Canonical tried to launch but failed to raise enough money...
We do not have the means to do this, but if you feel up to the task, go ahead that would be great.
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@AppLee Thanks!
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@AppLee How is what I said an unfair argument?
I'm sure many would argue that the only reason they signed up with Telegram is to have access to porting notes etc. for UT projects.
I mean, even the documentation steers people to use Telegram:
"There are online Telegram chat groups you can join to ask for help, but please bear in mind that those participating are doing so in their spare time."
So saying it's a choice is stretching the truth especially considering that there is a business relationship there with a strategy. I'm not sure what you don't understand about what I said, it's true and totally valid given the "circumstances".
We haven't even touched on privacy. No anger here, it's a question of ethics. I was also curious as to what kind of answer I would get. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this one.
I will agree that the support here has been more than acceptable and is a great forum.
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@Timespansoul said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 150 Saturday 5th October 19:00 UTC:
especially considering that there is a business relationship there with a strategy.
There is no business relationship between Telegram and the UBports foundation. And as far as there is a strategy it was as follows:
Canonical had some type of relationship with Telegram in that there was some kind of cooperation between Telegram and Canonical to get a functioning Telegram client on Ubuntu for Phones when the first phones with Ubuntu for Phones was launched. Telegram was the only one of the 'mainstream' messaging platforms that was open to integrating support for the Push service that Canonical had developed and hosted for Ubuntu for Phones. This resulted in a semi official Telegram client for Ubuntu Touch.
Because Telegram was the only natively supported chat client from the very beginning, naturally all the different communities formed on that platform. And because the network effect kicked in, when Canonical ceased development of Ubuntu Touch and the Telegram app started to progressively deteriorate, the community devs decided to create Teleports, based on the Telegram library to service the already present community groups on Telegram.
As @AppLee mentioned, there are also Matrix channels and previously they were bridged with Telegram (or the other way around) but there were no committed maintainers for the bridges, and insufficient committed moderators on there. Also the support for Matrix chat clients is ... sub par ... on UT currently.
The documentation mentions the channels because that's where people are. If we would move to somewhere else,, the documentation would be changed. But it is not easy to move a whole community to a different platform. Especially if we want them to be able to access that platform from their UT devices too.
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@arubislander said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 150 Saturday 5th October 19:00 UTC:
Also the support for Matrix chat clients is ... sub par ... on UT currently.
To be clear, even ignoring using Matrix clients on UT, the basic user experience of Matrix, with pretty much any client on any platform, is inferior to that of Telegram.
Not to mention, if one thinks that we are somehow forcing people to use Telegram for UT already, how are the few thousand people already participating in our community on Telegram supposed to feel if we were to force them onto some other chat platform, because of a single person's politics on this forum? Forcing everyone into a worse user experience to continue chatting with people in the community is not beneficial to anyone.
If @Timespansoul doesn't want to use Telegram, that's fine, and they don't have to. Nobody is forcing them. Feel free to not use it, and deal with any difficulties you may have as a result, in the same way that choosing to use a phone OS that isn't iOS or Android introduces difficulties in your life. Nobody here is forcing you to use Telegram if you don't want to.
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@dobey
But, maybe like you did migrating from GitHub to GitLab for some reasons, which obviously was a big work and took time, you could migrate from telegram to mastodon some day ?For sure priority must stay Ubuntu Touch, but, could it be on a task list somewhere for anytime ?
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@Keneda said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 150 Saturday 5th October 19:00 UTC:
like you did migrating from GitHub to GitLab for some reasons, which obviously was a big work and took time
The migration for git hosting did not effect the entire community. The vast majority of people using UT, do not touch its code. Something that effects very few people, and has very clear gains, and that the majority of people involved in, are wanting to do, is not the same thing.
There is nothing stopping anyone for migrating to Matrix if they so choose. We have UT chat rooms set up there already. Please use them. See if people want to move. If the critical mass of community members moves the majority of discussion from Telegram over to the rooms on Matrix, then cheers, you've successfully migrated. But this is not something that can be forced by the foundation or the few of us who a few people might listen to. There will need to be clear benefits and reasoning for people to migrate, not one person on the forums complaining that they don't use Telegram.
Also, I'm sure you made a think-o when you typed Mastodon in your post, but we have a Mastodon.
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@dobey said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 150 Saturday 5th October 19:00 UTC:
Also, I'm sure you made a think-o when you typed Mastodon in your post, but we have a Mastodon.
I was thinking about support channels like the ones on telegram.
Nevermind. -
@dobey We're going off track a bit here. Firstly, I didn't suggest to move an existing community. The networking is in effect as @arubislander mentioned. Secondly, we can't pretend it happened organically.
My initial question was why. Why, with UTs focus being on privacy and freedom, would they encourage to use the likes of "platform A", a platform that should be avoided due to etc. etc.. Someone who says that "platform A" is safe and private shouldn't be trusted, in my opinion, because if they were to say that, they'd be lying to my face. Are you saying that I can trust Telegram?
Are we not, as linux users, striving to rid ourselves of the Googles and the Facebooks of the world? And to what... just to replace it with, cough, Telegram? Give me a break.
Where would you say, that the majority of the porting notes can be found? I ask this sincerely. I'll be honest, I'm only assuming that most of the available porting notes are found on Telegram.
Would you say that technically speaking, Telegram has more to offer than the ubports forum?
Much of what you said would be fair if there wasn't such a huge technical side to UT and the installation thereof. It's not an "option" when the functionality of the device depends on it. I would call that a requirement.
@dobey said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 150 Saturday 5th October 19:00 UTC:
Nobody here is forcing you to use Telegram if you don't want to.
Although this is true in most cases it isn't true in all cases. In the event that someone is trying to let's say, port a new device and the information they need to get past "obstacle x" is only found on Telegram, would you not agree that this person is somewhat compelled to join Telegram or "deal with any difficulties you may have as a result"? And be left possibly with a paperweight?
This very scenario is most definitely anecdotal for someone, someone who just wants to have a functioning phone and is aiming to DECREASE the number of accounts they need to use a device that they own.
There is no good solution and people have to live by their decisions. I'm just glad I have a device that was well documented as I was able to avoid using Telegram. I'm sure others weren't so lucky and I'm sure I wouldn't be running UT if I had to.
@dobey said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 150 Saturday 5th October 19:00 UTC:
choosing to use a phone OS that isn't iOS or Android introduces difficulties in your life.
Yes we can all agree that UT has its fair share of difficulties. And being a community, who advertises privacy and freedom, to initially choose to spread the community across questionable platforms, added an extra layer of difficulty. If the goal is to port as many phones as possible then this is, statistically speaking, working against the overall progress of UT.
I know my question doesn't have a good answer or a good solution, I was mainly highlighting the inherent hypocrisy of it all and I was interested to hear people's thoughts on the matter.
@dobey said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 150 Saturday 5th October 19:00 UTC:
There will need to be clear benefits and reasoning for people to migrate, not one person on the forums complaining that they don't use Telegram.
I didn't suggest anything of the sort. But I will list the benefits to not having made those decisions in the first place:
-less accounts
-less usernames
-less passwords
-less emails
-less personal information is divulged to corporations
-centralized notifications
-centralized workflow
-centralized documentation
-centralized community
-efficiency
-networking efficiency
-smoother, more complete, exclusive user experience
-UT can stand behind their words shamelesslyIf I were to refine my first question I would ask " do you, the reader, think that decision helped or hurt the progress of UT?"
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@Timespansoul
I will cut it short and then lock this thread as it's going nowhere.You asked why we made a decision to push Telegram.
And we answered that there was no decision, nor intention to push people to Telegram.
This was just a convenient way for developers to communicate and it stuck.
Because the UBports community inherited work done previously by Canonical.Now you can repeat all you want that UBports is encouraging people to use Telegram it will not make it true.
If you want porting advice you can ask on the forum, there is a category here dedicated to it.
But as a matter of fact, porters prefer to use Telegram
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A AppLee locked this topic on
