PinePhone
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@Photojoe4 Maybe there could be some exposed pads for I2S we could access with pogo-pins through a modified case?
The Allwinner A64 has I2S on either pins PB3-PB7 or pins PB3 + PG10-PG13 according to the datasheet and according to the feature matrix on the SUNXI wiki, I2S should be supported in mainline Linux since 4.17.
Unfortunately the first channel (on the PB pin block) is shared with the SIM card pins if we use the A64 for that. Even worse PB3 (I2S0_MCLK, I2S master clock) is shared with SIM_VPPPP ("SIM Card Power Voltage"). However, the second channel (on the PG pin block) could potentially be of use if we can find another way to solve SIM_VPPPP. I'll leave it up to the PINE64 team to answer that one since this is pretty much all the information I can figure out by myself from the SoC documentation. Maybe we don't even use the built in SIM functionality?
Anyway it looks like the I2S hardware supports up to 192kHz sample rate and 32 bits depth. This is detailed in chapter 2.1.8 in the A64 manual.
The built in DAC+AMP is specified to "100dB SNR@A-weight", which means you're looking at somewhere around 90dB SNR without an A-weighted spectrum. Obviously that doesn't hold true for the whole range of 20Hz-20kHz when using the dB(A) scale, but I'd say the difference between the built in 100dB(A) SNR DAC+AMP and a high end external 120dB SNR DAC+AMP is immeasurable when you're anywhere but in a professional studio or measuring the theoretical response on an oscilloscope.
Unfortunately when I skimmed through the manual I couldn't find anything about the rated power or design impedance, but unless you had some really high impedance headphones to take out with you I'd say the built in audio path is sufficient for high quality playback. You might be glad to hear the A64 does support true line level outputs on C16/D16 in addition to the amplified headphone output on C13/C12 but I don't know if we'll get those routed on the board. Users would probably confuse the line out connector for an extra headphone connector so I would probably use a different connector for the line out anyway.
This is all very much overkill considering (1) the priority right now is to get the first phone out of the door and (2) the built in DAC+AMP combo is way better than it needs to be for outdoor use. Maybe we could have line out and/or a nicer amplifier on PinePhone 2? To be honest I'd be more interested in the former if you want to use a high quality external amplifier, just cut the internal amplifier out of the signal path entirely and use a 1:1 isolation transformer to get differential outputs.
This got a lot longer than I anticipated when I started writing an "I'll just copy some stuff from the datasheet" post but I hope I helped answer at least some of your concerns.
Edit: The dB/dB(A) comments are for the SNR but I had omitted those three very important letters
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@Photojoe4 I'll try to get answers to your questions when I can. That said, TL is now in China so it may take some time for me to get back to your re. specifics. Again, not going to give false pretenses, the audio stuff on the PinePhone is taking a back-seat to some of the other features and capabilities. That said, I expect that audio, on headphones in particular, to be 'fine' for most users. As to what may or may not be in the Pinephone 2 will largely depend on user feedback and how this phone goes
As for the other things you wrote; indeed, the priority is currently to get the ball rolling - its one of the key reasons why TL is en-route to China. We intend to have the the dev kit 2.0 board + phone PCB in (concurrent) production by the end of the next month.
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@Djhg2000 Wow, that's much more detail than I expected, thanks! Certainly gives some perspective as to what would be involved in making this an audio-centric device
As I said, I'll be thrilled just to have a device that's 1)Running Linux and 2)Has current hardware that can be fixed/replaced as needed.... -
@PINE64 It really is humbling how you're responding to just about every question posted here, thank you!
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Are there any OS for the PinePhone that support VoLTE?
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@B2288 Since there is no real device now there is no OS for the PinePhone at all. So this question is a bit early, lets talk about volte in a year or so ^^
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An updated look at Lune OS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SyqbI24qu0For those asking about performance, while this is a very early build and the Lima driver is still WIP, I think that we can all agree this looks quite promising
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How will you evaluate the number of Pinphones with UT for the production ? Did you start a pondering about that ? Actually, you have as start point or work basis the number of members of ubports community.. Knowing that a lot are '' Pinphone addict '', it could be several for some/a lot of members..
For me it will be two -
@domubpkm To be honest, we don't have an estimate. Here is what we're thinking: late this year and early next year we will release two batches of Pinephones geared toward enthusiasts happy to accept some potential sw shortcomings. Which OS, if any, these early phones will ship with is anyone's guess at the moment - its still early in the process. Then there will be a pause in production (kind-of-forced and not up to us; CNY - which realistically lasts over a month). This will give us an idea of the interest in the device and, as a bonus, also give some time for the software to mature as phones end-up in the users hands and people report issues (perhaps you guys even help devs out in the polishing process).
Once CNY storm blows over (late Feb/ early March 2020) we may decide to ship the phones cyclically changing the OS per batch (batch 1 UT; batch 2 LuneOs; batch 3 Maemo Leste, etc.,). We are even toying with the idea of having different color back-plates for each of the projects (UT = Orange/ KDE = Green etc.,) - perhaps even with a stamped-in logos, for when a batch ships with a particular OS. The default black back-plate will obviously always be there as an option. And I hope its clear to all that you can run whatever you desire on your PinePhone ... I'm sure someone will end up running XFCE just because its possible
So what the Phones ship with doesn't really matter all that much.Anyways, we'll probably play it by the ear and see how it goes this years and early the next and take it from there. BTW, all I have written may not happen or may change - just letting you know what we're currently planning and thinking
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@PINE64 again a very clear, complete and professionnal answer : this time how the distribution process (wide view) should happen : THANK YOU !
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@PINE64 thank you for this thoughtful answer. Can't wait for the first batch
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I know it's too early to talk about this but I'd really like to see a passive audio amplifier like fairphone did for its phones
(https://www.3dhubs.com/talk/t/introducing-fairphone-2s-crafty-wooden-accessories/3783)
maybe this can also help with positioning the speaker in a strategic place -
@mymike looks like a fun add-on. Not sure its something we'll try to tackle, as we've got plenty on our plate, but we hope end users and other projects will be happy to create such and other peripherals for the PinePhone. We're trying to expose I2C (via pogo pins) on the PinePhone too, which would also open it up to various applications and custom case-backs, etc.,
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I know it's too early to talk about this but I'd really like to see a passive audio amplifier like fairphone did for its phones
maybe this can also help with positioning the speaker in a strategic place
Neat. Looks like something the 3D printing community could do for just about any phone.
we hope end users and other projects will be happy to create such and other peripherals for the PinePhone. We're trying to expose I2C (via pogo pins) on the PinePhone too, which would also open it up to various applications and custom case-backs, etc.,
I'm hoping someone - whether @PINE64 or another company - comes up with a landscape keyboard case for terminal work. So far I've used repurposed Iphone keyboard cases, connecting by Bluetooth, but that's a bit of an ugly hack.
Edit to add: that ugly hack is also complicated by the fact that I've only found landscape slider keyboards for very old Iphones, and most of them have dead batteries by now. By the time I plug them into a charger battery or other power source, I have enough hardware on my hands that I might as well just ssh in.
I did recently acquire two Iphone slider keyboard cases with working batteries, but one is a portrait keyboard so not ideal for the terminal (and also takes an oddball charge plug), and the other lacks a dedicated row for numbers. Maybe I should look into 3D printing a larger case and installing a decent battery into the five row keyboards. Or just glue a thin charger battery to the back of those keyboards.
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@PINE64 I really like the idea of having different colors for different operating systems. Would the different back-plate designs be available separately or to be treated as limited editions exclusive to each batch?
Another idea could be to have solid colors available to all and printed artwork exclusive to each batch. For instance, the first batch could have a solid purple backing with the orange Ubuntu Phone circle (like in this picture: http://refugeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Ubuntu-Phone-Wall.png).
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@trainailleur Granted the pogo pin setup works out, I am pretty sure just about everyone will be thinking of making a keyboard case-back.
@Djhg2000 Not really sure what artwork you have in mind exactly, but casting a cover in a different color (basically just different color plastic) would most certainly be less expensive. Also, we cannot use some of the artwork due to potential problems with trademarks -- that linked Ubuntu image being a good example of what we could not do
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@Djhg2000 Not really sure what artwork you have in mind exactly, but casting a cover in a different color (basically just different color plastic) would most certainly be less expensive. Also, we cannot use some of the artwork due to potential problems with trademarks -- that linked Ubuntu image being a good example of what we could not do
I only meant for the picture to be illustrative but now that I read my post again I see that I wasn't very clear about that, sorry for the confusion.
Basically I wanted to have some recognizable UI element printed on the back so that you could tell what the phone shipped with. Trademarks/copyright could certainly be an issue for some of those. Then again, a solid color should be recognizable enough to the right people.
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@Djhg2000 Ah yes. Well, it would be ideal to have a logo of the project in question molded into the plastic. How much work and how expensive that would be is some we won't know for some time. Its just an idea.
I truly hope that people will also 3D print custom back-covers (and cases) for the PinePhone.
You can always make your own vinyl skin for the case if neither of the ideas materialize -
@PINE64 A transparent one would be cool
- It´s a project where you should see whats inside, so also give transparency to the hardware hehe...My languages: 🇦🇹 🇩🇪 🇬🇧 🇺🇸
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A great metaphor, @Flohack
