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@kugiigi Ah, the apologists have come out. Now we have a REAL conspiracy on our hands...
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..the plot thickens.
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@c0n57an71n sure. I was about to suggest locking the thread.
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@c0n57an71n Why don't you change your name to C0n7r0lFr33k ?
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It's ok. Lock the thread. My job is done here.
Gotchya's...
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@mrlen I'm gonna assume one last time you really want to have a discussion here. Canonical's business model has always been weird / hybrid - that is, relying on a trademark and selling server solutions all the while trying to cater to its open-source community. Back then, they didn't have the ressources they have now, for one good reason: the failure of unity and the reverting to gnome desktop is a result of their choice to focus on the server side of affairs, because it was money-worthy.
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@alan_g i had no idea you came from Canonical. Huge thanks for involving in the project. Tell me if my post above is wrong. Anyway, @mrlen if you want absolute proof that there is nothing preventing an linux solution from happening, free of google and ios, check into SailfishOS. It works perfectly. On four/five officially supported devices, no more. That's the maximum a company with expperience (ex-Nokia) and ties in the busines was able to achieve. That should put things into perspective.
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@emphrath Not just him, and Alan Pope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XcoWKoubjE and Mark Shuttelworth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDHL3youjIY still show a love for Ubuntu Touch. But business is business. You can't put food on the table when no money's coming in and loosing millions..
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@emphrath okies, I'll check it out. I've been trying to figure out the best way to get Google out of my life. That's the main thing I am after. I've researched pretty much everything and anything -- and I've purchased over 7 phones trying different stuff out. But actually, I haven't come across sailfish OS. I'll go look that up now.
I will say though, before I toddle off.. my main problem with alternative OS's is that when it comes to installing them, and the instructions I am presented with -- it literally gives me brain damage. Therefore, I've been looking for solutions that I can buy off the shelf. But they are very few and far between. I think from memory, you've for fairphone /e/ and pinephone.
At the end of the day, I just want to be able to use technology, without becoming a product. Or being tracked everywhere. I don't consent to any of that.
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@mrlen And you're very right ! SailfishOS is what you need I think. It's a no-hassle solution. It's not free, though ^^
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@mrlen wow, after a cursory look. Sailfish OS looks pretty cool...
You can use Android apps up to 8.1 too. Not bad.
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@emphrath I'm not looking for free. I am looking for freeDOM
Perfectly happy to pay for that, so I am not the product.
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@mrlen I'm quite impressed with sailfish OS. I can't believe I didn't see it earlier. I've been searching around for months.
However, I'm still gonna keep this UT Nexus 5. I genuinely love it. For what it is/does, it works well. It calls, lets me take photos and videos and I can sms. At the end of the day, that's all you "really" need out of a phone.
Now I am weighing up the pros and cons between Sailfish OS and AOSP. My biggest problem with AOSP is the complicated installation. I guess eberything is easy once you get used to it. Maybe I just need to learn.
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@mrlen I thought it was wrong for them to dismiss you too early...looks like they were right. Talking to you is a waste of time. Please don't come to the telegram chat. Thanks
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@kugiigi What did I do now???
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@mrlen
Click on the link next to their name and you'll see what they're referring to.Now as a moderator here, I moved the thread to "off topic" because as @C0n57an71n explained this is not what the General category was intended for.
We are open to discussion, but rambling about theories is not a discussion.
Consider this a warning, unfounded accusations are not tolerated here. We want to keep this community friendly and about Ubuntu Touch.I will keep the thread open thanks to @Emphrath and the last messages but please keep in mind that words can hurt and theories must be proven.
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@kugiigi Oh, I got what you are referring to now.
I was just mucking around. I don't sincerely believe this forum is infiltrated by Canonical staff that are bent on making sure UTouch doesn't succeed. Well, not fully -- lol.
I was just upset with C0n57an71n for being a bossy boots. To just cut me down and tell me what I was saying wasn't even worth discussing. That kind of thing really irked me.
In any case, I DO genuinely believe someone told Canonical to quit working in Ubuntu Touch.
Call that "unorganised discussion", call it an "unfounded accusation", call it "rambling" .. call me "stupid" or "manichean" .. whatever -- I genuinely believe (at this point) that Canonical dropped UT for reasons other than "it's not financially viable".
Because look at Sailfish OS. They're making a profit. Look at Fairphone and Pinephone. Look at Purism. They're all still trying. Look at the AOSP community.
Look at how privacy conscious people are becoming.
There's definitely money to be made in open source Linux OS.
Look at the strides Linux has made in the past 10 years. It's the OS of the future (in general), imho.
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@mrlen You cannot compare the UT project and Sailfish OS. Sailfish was developped by people who knew both the cellphone market and the actual hardware, had ties with hardware production, and, most importantly had an actual business plan, with only paid employees, aiming at only a few phones of the same brand (Sony) and able to actually make their own phone (jolla phone) !!! None of this has ever been reachable by Canonical, nor was it their goal. They wanted to make something that would progressively come from convergence with computer UI (unity), that could eventually run on a vast diversity of hardware (just like Linux Desktop does), with the help of the Debian community all the while essentially hoping that two things would happen: actors of the market would eventually disclose hardware drivers, and they would manage to get the leverage necessary to build an assembly chain for their phones. That could have worked, it didn't and that's it. Just watch the absolute pain Purism has gone through to set up assembly in China, and again, that should give you perspective. On a side note: if someone had purposefuly stopped the UT process at the time, why did this all-powerful entity hasn't stopped all the other successful (yet less ambitious) alternatives to happen ? Why were the people of Ubports even able to get the source code ? That makes no sense to me.
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@emphrath I don't have the answers. I can't figure out why a lot of stupid things happen in this world -- yet, they happen. I can't figure out why a lot of people think they way they do -- yet, there they are, baffling any semblance of logic and reason; and in NUMBERS. Hoards, even.
We can discuss semantics endlessly, but at the end of the day, Canonical has hundreds of millions of dollars in assets and access to countless programmers that are willing to (and do) work for nothing. Yet, they couldn't even get UT to a point where even ONE basic app for each task/project would work? *Kind of like what Apple did.
I'm just not buying it. I know I'm sounding like a broken record at this point -- so I won't keep repeating myself. I personally believe a crowd funding campaign for $250k would get UT over the line to a point where it would be adopted by hundreds of thousands of more people -- which would generate the interest (and the money) to add more stuff. Purism did a crowdfunding campaign.
I know there are some limitations like an old kernel, etc. But still. It's just sad to see such a great project shining so brightly, but (as it appears to me) .. fading out the back door.
Ubuntu Touch is the BEST "idea". The most promising Idea. At the end of the day, it could probably even be programmed to run android apps, like Sailfish can. Like Linux runs Windows stuff with wine.
UT is like 95% the way there. What a waste. What a shame.
And SHAME ON CANONICAL as far as I'm concerned -- and I don't care what their excuse is. They have the money to get this over the line.
None of you have convinced me that Canonical didn't start out right, but got overtaken by monopolistic greed. It also makes me think twice about Ubuntu in general actually.
I'm not trying to start any trouble or accuse anyone. I'm just saying my thoughts. I could be wrong..
..bit something doesn't smell right.
