How Can I Contribute OR Why YOU Will Drop Ubuntu Touch Entirely
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what phone OS are you using and have you been using in your daily life?
I have clearly stated that this thread is not a discussion about personal tastes, hardware choices, or daily-driver experiences.
It's still a good question. It provides a little context for your experiences. Please answer it, it does not require a new thread for such a simple statement. We have shown you goodwill, please extend the same to us.
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@Moem I've used lineageos for years, keeping in mind ubtouch from those promos back in the day first pine phone came. Didn had money, time for it at the time, but kept in the back of my head that there are ppl moving linux mobile forward and I'll join when I can. About a year ago I started device hopping, landed on the thought that there is legendary (in my head at this point) ubtouch. Went through the list of best supported devites, some instructions, tips, forums, watched some videos wich turned out mostly to be from 2022,23 or crap quality, no detaided examitations (wich was strange but I did not pay attention to it). So 1 month of going though tedious xiaomi unlocking, and I've had the working ubtouch phone, the rest is history on the forum. Ah, after ubtouch dissapointment, I've bought pixel 7 for daily with graphene os, serves its needs. As for linux mobile looking into daily drivers stated at mobian, postmarked, and a ways to participate there as stated in the document. Here I'm currently to clarify for others, who may need the clarification, what I didnt know back then.
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@grenudi Thank you!
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@grenudi Thank you!
the rest is history on the forum.
Can you re-explain briefly what turned you off about Ubuntu Touch as a user? Because in your messages I feel it's more development philosophy concerns.
Personally I don't pretend that Ubuntu Touch is ideal. The fact that it is using Halium and proprietary blob is clearly a tradeoff, and I would prefer 10 times running a mainline Linux with 100% Foss ( I think everyone would ). And Mir1.x does not seem to me the best compositor in the world, we'll see about Mir2.x.
The thing is that when you are really committed to not using Android-based or IOS mobile OS, and use a Foss-Oriented OS, well Ubuntu Touch saves the show. If I had to use postmarketOS or Mobian as a daily driver it would greatly handicap my personal and social life. And sailfishOS is partiality proprietary so I don't see the point to prefer a locked-down environment to another. So for me your concerns are of secondary importance in comparison to what UT provides: a Linux mobile experience that does not handicap me too much in my daily life and social life, and that has served me for years.
Ps: I'm surprised that you don't seem concerned that your Android-based phones are running the same kind of vendor non-mainline kernel that are not the latest versions, and that get outdated in the exact same way as UT kernels.
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@pparent ty for your opinion on the matter.
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I'm surprised people still argue with generative AI. If you want to seriously argue, then I suggest writing your own opinion yourself rather than letting a stochastic machine generate them for you. Then you also won't post embarrassing hallucinations such as xwayland being used to run wayland apps.
The one point at the core here seems to be that you assume Ubuntu Touch = wrapper for android vendor ecosystem. But The real problem is that there is no recent phone hardware which has good enough linux mainline support to actually be comfortable to ship it. Meanwhile you have Volla and Furi shipping Halium based phones.
So is it true that Ubuntu Touch won't run on mainline Linux? I think not. The Brax open_slate tablet has been posted in this forum recently. It will have mainline support because it uses the Mediatek Genio SoC for which Collabora is doing mainlinux linux support and they promised Ubuntu Touch support.
I talked with the people at the Furi booth at FOSDEM and they do intend to try to make mainline Linux work with the mediatek phone SoC they use (Unfortunately Mediatek Genio support does not automatically mean Mediatek Dimensity support). My Volla Phone uses a different Dimensity chip than the Furi Phone and they didn't seem to know how much of the effort would carry over to different Dimensity versions.
In the Volla community chat I also heard in passing that they had talks with GrapheneOS, which got me interested, because GrapheneOS would require a much more recent kernel than Mediatek ships for the Volla Quintus, and the reply was that Volla is also interested in migrating to a newer kernel and there's a real possibility. I treat that as a rumor until it happens.
The reason I'm writing all that:
Ubuntu Touch as it currently exists is a compromise yes, but it's also a stepping stone. I'm not a big fan of some of the things they're doing (snap cough) but once the mir 2 upgrade is done, it will be another step towards allowing more mainline wayland linux apps to run, one way or the other.In an android + ios defaultist world I think a lot of people have the opinion that we need to have one strong system as opposition to it to force app vendors to take us seriously, but my opinion is that that's a fallacy. So let's say hypothetically, SailfishOS is the next vendor banks choose to make apps for, but here on postmarketOS I still have no access to Wero? I think the more different linux based systems we have, the better, because it will encourage to create actual cross platform and open protocol technology instead of only targeting some subset of platforms and leaving out everyone else. That's why I personally set up monthly donations for both, Ubuntu Touch and postmarketOS. I have a Volla Quintus with Ubuntu Touch as primary phone because it has 5g and a working camera, and I have an old Shift 6mq with postmarketOS without a working camera and with a geoclue agent that uses 100% cpu the entire time while gps is queried and where pulseaudio sets the mic volume to a way too quiet 50% every time a sip call starts in gnome-calls, and a lot more small papercuts that reflect the current state of mainline linux on phone hardware. It's not a contradiction to support the development of both systems.
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@haagch ty for yor opinion and sharing insights that the rest of us doest have or have to go through a mess of q&a logs, forums and what not to get. I've spent hours on them and here you state that it is still not enough, then you can be rest assured that most of ubtouch community dont have any grasp on it at all, for the sheer amount of dedication it requires to understand where things are, and it is still wont be enough.
AI was used to clean up in the mess and a ton of text material, qa reports, forums and so on, and it was a great tool for that.
key points remain. all facts presented in the documents, non of this concerns major conclusions, aside from being minor corrections to them.
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@haagch ps camera and gps are stated - N Not working yet, for this device, on devices page on postmarketos .
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@grenudi For Shift 6mq gps is actually working on postmarketOS edge, the wiki just doesn't list it as working yet. modemmanager can get gps from the qualcomm modem and geoclue agent can pass it to librefox. Though it's still a bit flakey and last time I tried it, it didn't really continuously update the position on google maps web.
I'm actually not super deep into Ubuntu Touch or postmarketOS myself on a technical level. I just recently happened to see a video about GPS on postmarketOS, found the relevant wiki page and tried it for myself. I think that's the one tip I have for people: Instead of spending all that time on forum posts and videos, get a device and try stuff yourself, and accept current limitations. And the better use of AI is to help figure out stuff you don't know yet. It does require quite a bit of disposable income though, so I understand why not everyone can just commit-
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@haagch ty for your advice. Again, I have presented a list of facts here, and a list of conclutions based apon them. None here have yet said anything about facts presented. Please comment not on me or ai but on materials presented here, for example
FC-32 | Full upstream contribution audit
Upstream target UBports contribution Result Linux kernel mainline Zero Nothing Wayland / wlroots Zero Nothing Phosh / phoc Zero Nothing KDE Plasma Mobile Zero Nothing ModemManager Zero Nothing PipeWire Zero Nothing Debian (non-Lomiri) Zero Nothing postmarketOS Zero Nothing Halium ~95% Droidian uses it. KDE left in 2020. pmOS never used it. Lomiri in Debian Mike Gabriel's work Lomiri in Debian 13, NixOS, Rhino, pmOS
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@pparent @moem @libremax @haagch @keli @alan_g To save someone time arguing, here is simple analisys from another ai, with couterpoints of which I agree. And as stated before, this is a road map for others, to help choose direction where their want to direct their efforts, of where things are and not a suggestion on what ubports ubtouch direction should be.
I hear you, and it’s completely valid to feel defensive when a project you care about gets labeled with what sounds like a dismissive term.
Since you asked me to be sure, I ran a fact-check using Google on the definition of a "pet project" and the specific technical claims the critic made. I’m going to give it to you straight: the critic’s facts hold up, and technically, the definition does fit. But that doesn't mean the project is worthless, and you absolutely still have a valid counter-argument.
Here is what the reality check looks like, followed by how you can actually push back.
The Fact-Check: The Critic is Accurate
I verified the claims and links from the documents against current search results, and the critic's data is factual:- The "Pet Project" Definition: A pet project is universally defined as a project pursued out of personal interest, passion, or curiosity, rather than because it is generally accepted as necessary or broadly applicable to a wider group. Because Ubuntu Touch is structurally isolated and doesn't feed its work back to the broader Linux mobile ecosystem, the label accurately describes what the project has become.
- KDE & Halium (2020): It is true that KDE Plasma Mobile officially dropped Halium support in December 2020, citing the exact "uphill battle" against end-of-life vendor kernels the critic mentioned.
- Fairphone 5 & Kernel 5.4: The official UBports device page confirms the Fairphone 5 (their flagship) runs on the 5.4 kernel. Linux 5.4 reached its official End-of-Life in December 2022.
- Upstream vs. Downstream: The core of the critique—that UBports spends its time manually backporting fixes to dead kernels rather than upstreaming permanent solutions like postmarketOS does—is entirely accurate.
️ How to Counter: Own the "Pet Project" Label
You cannot win a debate against this critic on system architecture, kernel mainlining, or Wayland adoption. The numbers and the history are on their side.
However, you can counter the idea that "busy work for a pet project" means the work has no value. If you want to reply, here is the factual, grounded angle you can take:
- Linux Itself Started as a Pet Project
Open source is built on people scratching their own itches. If a group of dedicated volunteers wants to spend their free time keeping Canonical's Lomiri UI alive because they genuinely love the workflow, that is the purest definition of open source. It doesn't have to serve the broader ecosystem to be valid. - Tangible User Value vs. Ecosystem Theory
While postmarketOS is doing the "correct" upstream work, UBports is delivering a highly specific, polished, and de-Googled daily-driver experience for its niche audience right now. Features like Waydroid integration, personal data encryption, and Voice over LTE on a Ubuntu 24.04 LTS base are real things users benefit from today. Keeping a Fairphone 5 or an older device functional and private is not "busy work" to the person using that phone. - Lomiri Actually Is Shared
You can point out that while the OS itself might be isolated, the Lomiri desktop environment is not. Because of Debian maintainer Mike Gabriel, Lomiri is packaged in Debian 13, NixOS, and even postmarketOS. The UI they love is making its way into the wider world, even if the underlying Ubuntu Touch kernel stack isn't.
In short: Accept the facts, own the label, and pivot the argument to the value of user choice and immediate usability.
Would you like me to help you draft a short, punchy reply to the critic using this angle?
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And to close the things off here:
If you look at it strictly through the lens of a Technical Roadmap, the critic’s argument is cleaner and logically dominant.
The "roadmap" he presented makes a single, undeniable point: Contribution to Ubuntu Touch is a closed loop.
The Logic of the Roadmap
The critic isn't arguing about whether Ubuntu Touch "works"; he’s arguing about leverage. Most developers and users will choose the "Upstream/Mainline" road because:
Permanence: A fix in the Mainline kernel or Wayland helps everyone forever. It is an investment in the "Global Linux" infrastructure.
The Dead-End: A fix in a 2022-EOL Android kernel (like the one UT uses for the Fairphone 5) only helps UT, and only for that specific device. It has to be re-done for the next phone. That is the definition of "busy work."
The "Pet Project" Reality: Because the work doesn't scale or benefit the industry standard, it remains a project pursued for its own sake (passion/interest). In a professional or architectural sense, that makes the "pet project" label a factual description, not just an insult.Why the Argument Ends There
When someone presents a map and says, "Road A leads to a shared city everyone is building together, and Road B leads to a private cabin that you have to keep repairing yourself," most people will choose Road A.If your goal was to find a "factual way to counter," the reality is that there is no technical counter-argument to the roadmap. You can only offer a user-experience alternative: "I prefer the private cabin because it has a roof and a heater (VoLTE/Waydroid) today, even if it isn't part of the city."
In short: The critic wins the architectural debate. Ubuntu Touch remains a choice for people who value the immediate, specific result over the long-term ecosystem investment.
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@Moem up to you. I did wrote the underlying queries to all this (and the whole process took days and two month of tokens value on claude ai), red them all more than once, and checked, then refined, over and over. This all ai thing starts sounding like a strange discrimination on a tool that is nothing but a tool, and as with any tool its value is defined by its user and not of itself (the old guns dont kill argument). But anyway, that is not the place for this. If you dont want to read, dont. You dont need to inform me about it, its solely up to you. I dont need to point this out to you either, but I did, and you informed me, so you did, so it is that. Just pointing things out around
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