PinePhone
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@Stefano I would not expect an overwhelming performance at the beginning. We know that especially unity8 is not optimized for speed. So N5 might be more powerful. But you have to take small steps: A new phone is such a complex project in both hardware and software, it needs to be evolved. So the first devices will be gate-openers for UBports, and I think the generations to come will then be all loaded with the performance you need for non-techy users like your granny
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battery
"Not having a removable battery is a dealbreaker for me so the Librem 5..."I just went to their own web site, and they clearly say the battery is serviceable/replaceable.
To be clear, you mean you want a phone with an externally removeable battery? Just
click off? I can't remember the last phone I owned which had that. -
@vandys I mean a removable battery as in a battery you can remove without tools.
The Librem 5 as I understand it will have the battery on a cable connected to the mainboard and you'll need to disassemble the phone to replace it. Which to be fair means that it will indeed be user replaceable, but it also makes it really inconvenient to use as a method to implement the ultimate kill switch (physically separating the phone with it's battery). When I write an exam I don't want to risk it going off because the power button got jammed against something in my backpack.
It also makes it impractical to swap batteries during the day if I need to. Most people argue that you can just bring a charger or a power bank with you, but if you had the option, would you honestly prefer that over just swapping out the battery with a spare that fits your pocket? No need to find a wall outlet and no need to waste some of the energy you bring with you on lossy DC/DC converters. It's probably the most efficient way to carry additional energy with you and most of the phone industry has totally forgotten about it.
Seriously, how did it become acceptable to fumble around with a cable that takes your only I/O port and a brick larger than your phone just to cope with an unusually long day?
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Here we have a few new developments showing the dev kit working
PMOS with accelerated KDE Plasma Mobile: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity/status/1126822683059027969
LuneOS (debugging some acceleration issues): https://photos.app.goo.gl/JB21zVDFBqwYiai56 -
First post updated to link to the VoLTE discussion (in case anyone is interested in such details re. carrier coverage) and also to update the ATT info therein.
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That's looking awesome
Would be so cool to have a PinePhone, a PineBook AND a PineTab for daily use and all of them with the same Ubuntu Touch OSI agree, and you forgot a Rockpro64 with Yunohost to host our private cloud (matrix server like synapse, needed for Fluffychat
, nextcloud...). -
@Thatoo You could probably do most of these things with a single RockPro64 and still have some performance to spare
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@PINE64 Indeed
Well, I'm working on this idea as you can read here : https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=7472
If you know how to help us to make this tutorial or who could help us to make it, that would be great. -
@Photojoe4 yes! this would be fantastic.
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@dualnature Yes, it would, but I'm afraid the audiophile/ubuntu touch user is a rather small group. Would be fantastic if we could "hack" the pinephone to add maybe a nicer dac/amp- maybe even a balanced headphone jack and extra battery pack. For now, I'll just be thrilled to get a phone running Linux with current/replaceable hardware...
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@Photojoe4 Maybe there could be some exposed pads for I2S we could access with pogo-pins through a modified case?
The Allwinner A64 has I2S on either pins PB3-PB7 or pins PB3 + PG10-PG13 according to the datasheet and according to the feature matrix on the SUNXI wiki, I2S should be supported in mainline Linux since 4.17.
Unfortunately the first channel (on the PB pin block) is shared with the SIM card pins if we use the A64 for that. Even worse PB3 (I2S0_MCLK, I2S master clock) is shared with SIM_VPPPP ("SIM Card Power Voltage"). However, the second channel (on the PG pin block) could potentially be of use if we can find another way to solve SIM_VPPPP. I'll leave it up to the PINE64 team to answer that one since this is pretty much all the information I can figure out by myself from the SoC documentation. Maybe we don't even use the built in SIM functionality?
Anyway it looks like the I2S hardware supports up to 192kHz sample rate and 32 bits depth. This is detailed in chapter 2.1.8 in the A64 manual.
The built in DAC+AMP is specified to "100dB SNR@A-weight", which means you're looking at somewhere around 90dB SNR without an A-weighted spectrum. Obviously that doesn't hold true for the whole range of 20Hz-20kHz when using the dB(A) scale, but I'd say the difference between the built in 100dB(A) SNR DAC+AMP and a high end external 120dB SNR DAC+AMP is immeasurable when you're anywhere but in a professional studio or measuring the theoretical response on an oscilloscope.
Unfortunately when I skimmed through the manual I couldn't find anything about the rated power or design impedance, but unless you had some really high impedance headphones to take out with you I'd say the built in audio path is sufficient for high quality playback. You might be glad to hear the A64 does support true line level outputs on C16/D16 in addition to the amplified headphone output on C13/C12 but I don't know if we'll get those routed on the board. Users would probably confuse the line out connector for an extra headphone connector so I would probably use a different connector for the line out anyway.
This is all very much overkill considering (1) the priority right now is to get the first phone out of the door and (2) the built in DAC+AMP combo is way better than it needs to be for outdoor use. Maybe we could have line out and/or a nicer amplifier on PinePhone 2? To be honest I'd be more interested in the former if you want to use a high quality external amplifier, just cut the internal amplifier out of the signal path entirely and use a 1:1 isolation transformer to get differential outputs.
This got a lot longer than I anticipated when I started writing an "I'll just copy some stuff from the datasheet" post but I hope I helped answer at least some of your concerns.
Edit: The dB/dB(A) comments are for the SNR but I had omitted those three very important letters
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@Photojoe4 I'll try to get answers to your questions when I can. That said, TL is now in China so it may take some time for me to get back to your re. specifics. Again, not going to give false pretenses, the audio stuff on the PinePhone is taking a back-seat to some of the other features and capabilities. That said, I expect that audio, on headphones in particular, to be 'fine' for most users. As to what may or may not be in the Pinephone 2 will largely depend on user feedback and how this phone goes
As for the other things you wrote; indeed, the priority is currently to get the ball rolling - its one of the key reasons why TL is en-route to China. We intend to have the the dev kit 2.0 board + phone PCB in (concurrent) production by the end of the next month.
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@Djhg2000 Wow, that's much more detail than I expected, thanks! Certainly gives some perspective as to what would be involved in making this an audio-centric device
As I said, I'll be thrilled just to have a device that's 1)Running Linux and 2)Has current hardware that can be fixed/replaced as needed.... -
@PINE64 It really is humbling how you're responding to just about every question posted here, thank you!
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Are there any OS for the PinePhone that support VoLTE?
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@B2288 Since there is no real device now there is no OS for the PinePhone at all. So this question is a bit early, lets talk about volte in a year or so ^^
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An updated look at Lune OS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SyqbI24qu0For those asking about performance, while this is a very early build and the Lima driver is still WIP, I think that we can all agree this looks quite promising
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How will you evaluate the number of Pinphones with UT for the production ? Did you start a pondering about that ? Actually, you have as start point or work basis the number of members of ubports community.. Knowing that a lot are '' Pinphone addict '', it could be several for some/a lot of members..
For me it will be two -
@domubpkm To be honest, we don't have an estimate. Here is what we're thinking: late this year and early next year we will release two batches of Pinephones geared toward enthusiasts happy to accept some potential sw shortcomings. Which OS, if any, these early phones will ship with is anyone's guess at the moment - its still early in the process. Then there will be a pause in production (kind-of-forced and not up to us; CNY - which realistically lasts over a month). This will give us an idea of the interest in the device and, as a bonus, also give some time for the software to mature as phones end-up in the users hands and people report issues (perhaps you guys even help devs out in the polishing process).
Once CNY storm blows over (late Feb/ early March 2020) we may decide to ship the phones cyclically changing the OS per batch (batch 1 UT; batch 2 LuneOs; batch 3 Maemo Leste, etc.,). We are even toying with the idea of having different color back-plates for each of the projects (UT = Orange/ KDE = Green etc.,) - perhaps even with a stamped-in logos, for when a batch ships with a particular OS. The default black back-plate will obviously always be there as an option. And I hope its clear to all that you can run whatever you desire on your PinePhone ... I'm sure someone will end up running XFCE just because its possible
So what the Phones ship with doesn't really matter all that much.Anyways, we'll probably play it by the ear and see how it goes this years and early the next and take it from there. BTW, all I have written may not happen or may change - just letting you know what we're currently planning and thinking
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@PINE64 again a very clear, complete and professionnal answer : this time how the distribution process (wide view) should happen : THANK YOU !
