Does Ubuntu Touch actually replace Android or does it somehow run on top of it?

RayCulp

Hi everyone,

This may seem like a silly question to seasoned users, but I'm coming from a PinePhone that runs Manjaro natively, so I found a few things about the Ubuntu Touch installation, as well as some features I discovered after installing, a bit... strange.

For example, before installing, I needed to downgrade the Android version on the used Google Pixel 3a XL that I bought to a specific version. By comparison, when flashing a new OS to the PinePhone, it doesn't matter what was on it before.

Or, when I boot the Google Pixel, I still briefly see the Google splash screen.

Or another example: To enable SSH, the command is android-gadget-service enable ssh

All of this seems to suggest that the Google / Android infestation is still on the phone after installing Ubuntu Touch. Is this a false impression? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Best regards

P.S. I had a look at the Halium website, but I'm having trouble understanding the illustration of the stack. Regardless, maybe a better way to phrase my original question would be, "Is Halium based on (the open source core of) Android, or does it run on top of Android?"

Keneda

@wq6z8x4u
UT does not run on "top" of android.

However on android native devices, UT needs some parts from android to run closed source hardware for wich drivers only come with android.

So UT runs on top of some remnant parts of android, wich are, to simplify, device vendor Linux kernel and hardware drivers in it + android services, wich UT controls, that can "talk" to this hardware using those drivers.

Those parts don't communicate with google or any other entities outside ubports, if that's what bothers you.

Moem

@wq6z8x4u said in Does Ubuntu Touch actually replace Android or does it somehow run on top of it?:

before installing, I needed to downgrade the Android version on the used Google Pixel 3a XL that I bought to a specific version.

The purpose of that is to bring the partitions back to the configuration that the installer expects.

RayCulp

Thank you both very much for providing some insight. It makes more sense now.

arubislander

@wq6z8x4u In addition to what was already stated, I would like to add that the Google splash screen is just that, a splash screen. It is not an indication that some piece of Android or whatever is being started. It could even, in theory, be replaced by another animation.

domubpkm

@wq6z8x4u As you know, the only smartphone with zero android is the pinephone, but under UT it seems practically unusable and above all the battery is discharging at a phenomenal rate (noted on the latest DEV). That said, I do an update to test every 4 months...

MrT10001

I held back on answering as I wasn't 100% certain, but Flohack confirmed in one of the previous Q and A sessions. I would point out that these start up phones, like the Pinephone, Fairphone and Vollaphone are expensive for running an operating system that is not mainstream and will only be useful in the fickle smartphone market for the enthusiast, which there is not a great deal of. I would love to have these phones, but for a fraction of their cost ,even second hand I can get a really good OnePlus, Samsung, Google phone to run a native Linux OS on like UT.
I am not a fan of the amount of data we give away to corporations and really impress on people who are interested (not many) the importance of UT in data security. I also wish proprietary hardware and drivers become a thing of the past, as much as it is innovation, it also holds innovation back and allows useable and useful devices to end up in landfill.
BTW, Android and iOS are based on Linux.

messayisto

@arubislander Side note: In fact, you can install an UbuntuTouch splshscreen on some devices as well, see here:
https://rubencarneiro.github.io/rubencarneiro.io//Ubuntu-Touch-Device-Bootlogos.markdown/

arubislander

@messayisto Quite so! But the Pixel 3a / XL are not yet included in that list.

Keneda

@mrt10001
You can find used Fairphone 3 for less than 150€.

arubislander

@mrt10001 said in Does Ubuntu Touch actually replace Android or does it somehow run on top of it?:

BTW, Android and iOS are based on Linux.

Android runs on top of a Linux kernel, this is true. But it is a misconception that iOS is also based on Linux. iOS is based on BSD, which could be considered a 'cousin' of Linux.

MrT10001

@keneda I haven't come across one yet in all my searches, but for €150, I could get a better phone 2nd hand. This is the problem with the phone market and why Canonical and Microsoft failed (but at least Canonical allowed UT to be developed), unless its' Apple or Google, most users are not interested (Quick search : Fairphone 3 on a well known auction site £199, Apple iPhone 6S £54, I would rather the Fairphone to tinker with, but non tinkerers would most likely go Apple and we all know the issues with used items).

MrT10001

@arubislander My bad that's what I meant....:anxious_face_with_sweat:

RayCulp

@arubislander said in Does Ubuntu Touch actually replace Android or does it somehow run on top of it?:

I would like to add that the Google splash screen is just that, a splash screen. It is not an indication that some piece of Android or whatever is being started.

Thanks, that's reassuring!

RayCulp

@domubpkm said in Does Ubuntu Touch actually replace Android or does it somehow run on top of it?:

As you know

I actually don't know very much, so I don't want to make any assumptions. It's all still very new. I only recently began using Ubuntu as a desktop and server OS, and even more recently switched from Windows Mobile to PinePhone running Manjaro. I grew up with Windows. I have an old MCSA cert and have done extensive programming under Windows. But over the past two years or so I've realized that I need to rid myself of Big Tech in general: Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, Apple. It all has to go. But back to the matter at hand, I also installed UT on my PinePhone a few weeks ago, but of course, as you say, it's not viable as a phone for everyday use yet.

RayCulp

@mrt10001 said in Does Ubuntu Touch actually replace Android or does it somehow run on top of it?:

I would point out that these start up phones, like the Pinephone, Fairphone and Vollaphone are expensive for running an operating system that is not mainstream and will only be useful in the fickle smartphone market for the enthusiast, which there is not a great deal of.

When I got my PinePhone, I was surprised how rough around the edges the OS still was. That was about two years ago. It has gotten a lot better since then, but still nowhere near as polished and functional as UT.

I am not a fan of the amount of data we give away to corporations and really impress on people who are interested (not many) the importance of UT in data security. I also wish proprietary hardware and drivers become a thing of the past, as much as it is innovation, it also holds innovation back and allows useable and useful devices to end up in landfill.

I think it's actually much worse than that, if people like Yuval Harari are to be believed. Big Tech already has the computing power and algorithms it needs to take surveillance and control to the next level. The only leverage we still have is to withhold our data. We can (still) refuse to engage with these platforms.

RayCulp

@messayisto said in Does Ubuntu Touch actually replace Android or does it somehow run on top of it?:

you can install an UbuntuTouch splshscreen on some devices as well

Thanks, but that won't be necessary. I was just concerned from a purely practical standpoint that Google might still somehow be able to get my data and monitor my behavior. It would defeat the whole point of having a Linux phone.

RayCulp

@mrt10001 said in Does Ubuntu Touch actually replace Android or does it somehow run on top of it?:

unless its' Apple or Google, most users are not interested

To be perfectly honest, if the choice were between Apple and Google, I would choose not to have a smartphone at all. I'm absolutely serious about that.

dizzy

@wq6z8x4u Me too!

RobTheBold

@wq6z8x4u

Sure it has no practical effect, but I updated the splash screen on my OnePlus One, and immediately felt much cleaner!