Browser limits phone usability

domubpkm

@Cubiking The method is good but the .click does not work on your smartphone model.

Cubiking

@domubpkm any reasons for that? Since a browser isn't sth low level, I think it should work on a ut device with near perfect functionality

jojumaxx

I really tried to use Firefox for some time now, but often it does not register taps at all or not at the position tapped and too often sites are hard to use due to rendering issues.
Firefox unfortunately turns out to be also quite unusable.
After what I read, uFirefox also is not a real option, yet.

Morph is failing on more and more sites.

For me the browser is the most important app on the phone and I can't keep going like this.

Is there another Browser usable through libertine and some tweaks to enable usage on a small touchscreen?

domubpkm

@jojumaxx said in Browser limits phone usability:

For me the browser is the most important app on the phone and I can't keep going like this.

A powerful and fully functional browser on a smartphone is fundamental for all users

AppLee

Hi @jojumaxx

As I often write and now say, you can come and express that something is annoying for the end user.
That's fine, but it doesn't help in any way.

We are all aware of the issue, and there are many ways to react when facing a problem:

My favorite is to take the matter in my own hands
Second is to ask how I can help

People get angry, some demand, some others are menacing, ...
IMHO either you have patience and hope for the best or you can try one of the constructive ways I shared.

Moem mentioned work done by Alfred on an alternative browser.
You can try donating to keep him motivated on this matter that is important and useful to you.
You can propose your help in testing (or developing if you have the skills).
You can help us bring Morph to a more recent version of Qt (meaning moving from V5 to V6)
You can also help out people working on uFirefox or other alternatives you tried.

If I had a magic wand, there would be no post just stating things.
There would be statement + question on how one can act with the skills they have.
Or statement + a tangible and actionable proposal (PR always welcome)

We are a community. When one is on the forum they are one of us.
So questions like: what is being done about X?
Those are not helpful if asked to oneself.
Can I do X or Y for us? OR Is it better to do J or K?
Those are useful even if you direct the question to yourself...

I'll make a T-Shirt about this and save the world
Sorry for the rant, but people indulge me when I do that from time to time.

May Yumi be with you all.

messayisto

@AppLee wise words, thank you for that! -
Can you please point out for me how to donate especially to Alfreds browser project? - Thanks again and best regards.

jojumaxx

@AppLee I get all that and I am aware.
I am on board as a user since UT started. I always had patience and understanding and supported people if possible.

For the following I want tosay first, that I have no insights and mught not be aware of certain things.

I refer to as what UBorts presents itself on the web. An alternative OS for anybody.
I am sure I am not the only one who read stories of people trying UT for some time and then switching back to their former OS since they were disappointed.
Mostly this is, because they simply have no clue of what they hold in their hands.
But the people I know using Android or IOS I couldn't convince even one to switch to UT though for me it's the best.

On the device site I read "Runs very smoothly without any flaws. The experience on this device will be comparable to other mobile OSes on the market."

That's simply not true for an average user which UBPorts want to reach. Or amI getting this wrong?

Also my impression is, that the focus of developers often is on things important to them, not the community. There are often things in Q&As I thought about "nice" but doesn't bring the user experience for the average user forward, since he doesn't even get in touch with it.

I hope you get my point.

So maybe UBPorts should name it an OS for people who are willing to renounce and wait if something doesn't work.
But that is not a ready OS comparable to others on the market. You can't expect people to jump on the train if the train doesn't roll (browser, mail,...). In my opinion some priorities over the last years were not set right.

Please please don't get me wrong. I just want to clarify this for me and once and for all. I don't want bad blood.
I consider myself as an average user UBPorts want to gather more of.
I also don't have time to read and inform me about everything and other average users may behave similar. Therefore I might have gotten things wrong...?
So I wonder if UT is for me or just for really skilled people.

This not meant to disrespect the work of the developers. The opposite is the case, I wish I was that skilled! It's just about the direction and decisions I know too little about!

I'd love to help. I have basic coding skills, but I simply have no time. So I report experiences as a normal user with needs, developers maybe don't always see. I buy devices of Volla who help developing and donate to UBPorts.
That's what I can do.

I tried e.g. Volla OS and other degoogled OSes. I avoid apps wherever possible and do things in the browser. I don't really like Android. But basic stuff works on all those OSes, even on Mobian or postmarketOS on the Pinephone (which simply lags hardware). I know, one could write books now on why that is so.

My point is: If UT is praised as working OS for average people, then it should be that. In my opinion, it was, but isn't any more though it could.
It should state, what andfor who it really is.
If that disqualifies me as a welcome user, I accept that I am wrong and won't bother anyone here any more...

I really hope, I expressed myself right. I want to stay part of this and I was simply asking for a solution until a new browser is coming.
I am willing to wait but can't get along without a browser. So what am I supposed to do? This is my question...

AppLee

Hi @jojumaxx

Don't you worry you're not disqualified in any way.
I just wanted to point out and you mentioned it in your reply:
We cannot hold any apple to apple comparison with iOS and Android.
We are a community driven Open Source project, we don't have billions and not even millions we have people, good people, but very few of those.

Ubuntu Touch may or may not be for you because ATM some website you rely on don't work anymore on Morph.
That's a pity but we cannot make things go faster with a magical wand.
I understand perfectly your point of view and reporting issues is a good thing.
But the way you did it could be seen as nagging and that's not great.

In order to report things properly, it's best to open issues on Gitlab with logs and details.
This is not something we can expect from everyone (we know that), that's why I'm currently working on a app to help "regular users" to report bugs the "right way".
We are trying to bridge a gap between developers and regulars folks we're not perfect but we try to be as transparent as possible as to what one can expect from the OS. And yes it changes with time and new online services.
I think I already mentioned but sometimes even Firefox is not supported ; who is to blame? I'm inclined to say the website...

So basically I just wanted to remind everyone that we are one and we have to put ourselves in other members' shoes.

And some users are happy with the current state of Ubuntu despite VoLTE and the browser and the lack of Whats~~That~~App.
Because what works, works pretty well despite limitations that we're trying to push (and you are part of the we)

@messayisto On the Open Store, if you search an app made by Alfred there is sometimes a link to donate.
I'm not sure it should be on the forum, but ; here it is: https://paypal.me/beidl
The browser is not et on the Open Store and it might take some time...

jojumaxx

@AppLee Thank you for your answer, I really appreciate it.
No, it wasn't supposed to be nagging. I apologize for that.

Of course UT is for me, it's my daily driver for so many years now. It's stable and reliable and pretty.

Absolutely basic features should be priority no. 1. And since I am not involved in development I can't tell if there was no possibility to focus on that earlier, but then no magic wand was on the wishlist today...

I started diving into the Linux and FOSS world many years ago, but as a user only. And still I am learning about how all this works today and about philosophies behind it...
Though I have very little time, I am trying to get into app development. And hopefully I get to the point that I can give back a bit more.

I'll get along until a new browser emerges...

P.S. I only compared to de-googled OSes (I'm aware they have another basis which offers a lot). The comparison to apples is made on the website

arubislander

@jojumaxx In addition to what @AppLee has already said, I would like to add some context as to why the state of the browser is the way it is at the moment.

Morph is based on QtWebEngine, which is part of the Qt Framework that powers the UI of Ubuntu Touch. QtWebEngine uses the same web renderer as Chrome. As part of the framework it is pinned to the major Qt version that the base distro ships with. Ubuntu 20.04 and 24.04 both ship with Qt 5.x (different .x for each, but it is the 5 that matters here)
Development on Qt 5 has ceased, the current version is now 6.x. However, that will probably not be shipped till Ubuntu 26.04. It will take that long before it becomes relevant to us.

In the past the UT developers have tried to keep QtWebEngine updated ahead of the rest of the framework, to ensure a functioning browser which is reasonably up to date. (I think currently QtWebEngine is at 5.15 while the rest of the framework is at 5.12), This was feasible as long as the major versions were the same.

Lifting Lomiri to Qt 6 is a huge endeavor, and to be honest Qt 6 might not yet even be ready with all necessary components. And updating only QtWebEngine to Qt 6.x would introduce difficult to resolve conflicts due to mixing Qt versions.

So for the foreseeable future we are stuck on QtWebEngine 5.x. At the very least for the next few development rounds. The devs are aware of the situation and are regularly floating ideas to mitigate the issue. Alfred's browser that uses WebKit like Safari is one such initiative. But it has yet to reach the OpenStore as stated earlier.

In the meantime what options do you have while staying on Ubuntu Touch? I guess Waydroid is the only option that comes to mind. With that you can have Chrome or Firefox mobile or any other browser that runs on Android for those sites that no longer work in Morph.

jojumaxx

@arubislander Thank you for that explanation. I wasn't aware there was a focus like that on QtWeb...
So there is kind of a gap development is stuck in between Qt5 and Qt6?

Beginner's question:
If Ubuntu itself comes with Qt5, too, why do the browsers not have these issues?

I wanted to avoid *.droid. I tried it nevertheless some time ago, but my Volla with it's 4GB Ram struggled. That was pretty laggy. Maybe that changed on 20.04.

domubpkm

@jojumaxx

Maybe that changed on 20.04.

I would like to be very sure that you are on 20.04, because 16.04 is the worst for the browser now.

A solution: I see you have two Vollas. In this case, to not use waydroid, use one Volla under Volla OS to have updates browsers, another under UT.

arubislander

@jojumaxx said in Browser limits phone usability:

Beginner's question:
If Ubuntu itself comes with Qt5, too, why do the browsers not have these issues?

Excellent question. The answer is because most people use Chrome / Chromium and Firefox on desktop Ubuntu, none of these use QtWebEngine. Instead, both browsers bundle their own version of their separate browser engines (Blink for Chrome/Chromium and Gecko for Firefox). So when the browser updates, the browser engine updates independently from the base OS.

But browser engines are huge beasts, and especially early versions UT came on storage constrained devices, making it necessary to save space in the root filesystem where possible. (This is still a relevant consideration due to the wide range of devices UT runs on.)
Also, because of architectural reasons for supporting web apps, the choice was made for the flagship browser to use the browser engine that came packaged with the system, i.e. QtWebEngine.

messayisto

@AppLee thank you!

jojumaxx

@arubislander Thank you. I learned a lot in this thread and understand things better now.

I want to thank everybody for their patience and the hard work. This helps to appreciate it even more.

arubislander

@jojumaxx One option I haven't seen mentioned yet is making a web app / bookmark app with Webber. If a recent enough User-Agent header is added, most websites work.

jojumaxx

@arubislander I uninstalled Webber some time ago and started to use simple browser bookmarks.
The reason is, that you have to add every URL ((sub-)domain) a website might use. Otherwise there's a fallback to the browser which has no passwords (cookies) stored, keeps opening new tabs etc. which is an annoying behaviour.
E.g. for eBay I had more than 20 URLs. And always another one came up (hard to catch due to forwarding) and I had a fallback to Morph again. To add a new URL I had to create the Webber-Shortcut again and add every single URL...
If Webber was able to reopen a shortcut with all settings made, that would be a game changer (or didn't I just see that option?).

I could revive this if your suggestion works, but I'm afraid you have to tell me how to add the user agent header and which one (maybe there are options in Webber. I have to install and check first)...