How Can I Contribute OR Why YOU Will Drop Ubuntu Touch Entirely

grenudi

read md files attached. dont read. whatever.

ps

number of rewrites.png
pss
if you have seen movie "Unhinged", that's how ppl get unhinged. If you are the person who takes part of making such systems that does not even tell me where I'm being wrong, just straight up shut me up, don't wonder when you will become 'next' for such "Unhinged" person.

factcheck_v3_upstream_audit.md.txt

post_clean_hyperlinks.md.txt

grenudi

For @charly —my only contact here.

Keli

@grenudi thanks for the detailed writeup. I like your honest critique and insight on the situation.

projectmoon

What even is this?

I agree with certain points, especially about the display stack and, to some extent, the browser. Moving to QT6 is good, but moving to a normal Wayland compositor with a set of small patches to Firefox/Chromium would be better in the long run. I'm not exactly sure what "necessary functionality" from Mir would be lost, but I can't think of anything (but, I am not well-versed in the magic of Mir). I will withhold final judgment of the compositor situation until Mir 2.x is out.

The rest of it, the stuff about "pet project" and blah blah seems like unnecessary complaining. Ubuntu Touch is not a "pet project," even if one tries to stuff the definition into a specific hole. It is a volunteer-run open source project with some commercial backing. Volla is supporting Ubuntu Touch with commercial resources. They have at least one employee working on UT to make sure it runs properly on their devices, which is probably why the Volla devices (at least newer ones) have the smoothest experience. There is also apparently a commercial agreement with FairPhone for the FP4.

alan_g

Interesting perspective. I am the team lead on Mir and recognise some of the history you report on. But I don't interpret them all as you do:

Mir (display server): Canonical's alternative to Wayland. Pivoted to IoT. Wayland won.

This conflates the Mir display server and the mirclient API. mirclient was used before Mir switched to Wayland. Support for Wayland was introduced in 2017 and mirclient was dropped in 2021. Wayland did win, but Mir didn't lose.

C-02 | UBports Perpetuating the Pattern

UBports did not create the architectural problems. They inherited them.
But after 8 years, they have not resolved any of the fundamental ones:

Halium: still on vendor EOL kernels

Mir: still not standard Wayland-native

Mir is Wayland-native (for at least 5 years) and the basis of several popular desktop Wayland compositors:

Lomiri
Miracle-WM
Miriway

Mir 2.x IS a Wayland compositor. Standard Wayland client apps DO run via XWayland.

That misunderstands Xwayland - that allows X11 applications to run on a Wayland compositor,

The mirclient protocol — the native app protocol for UT Click apps — is not standard
Wayland. It is a Mir-specific extension. Miroil preserves it as a compatibility shim
over Mir2. The Mir team lead proposed Miroil in 2021 as a low-priority project.
In 2026 it is still not complete.

Miroil is complete and has been in maintenance mode since 2021, It provides API compatibility for Lomiri to make migration from Mir 1.x to Mir 2.x easier. It is not related to mirclient in any way.

Phosh's phoc uses wlroots. wlroots speaks native Wayland. GTK/Qt apps run natively.
No containers. No compatibility shims. No mirclient. One protocol. Standard.

To paraphrase: UBports Lomiri, Canonical's Ubuntu Frame, Matt's Miracle-WM, my Miriway and Budgie's Mirpie use Mir. Mir speaks native Wayland. GTK/Qt apps run natively. No compatibility shims. No mirclient. One protocol. Standard.

Using containers is a OS choice, not a compositor choice.

libremax

@grenudi

UT, on the best-supported and highest-performing devices, offers a level of functionality that isn't available in the competing projects you mention (for which I have deep respect).
For example, the fact that a system works partially on over 700 devices is of no interest to the average UT user whose device runs the system fully.
As long as UT offers competitive advantages over other systems, it will continue to attract users, developers, and partnerships.
Your beliefs about Mir are incorrect, which means your reasoning regarding UT’s architectural “problems” is flawed.
Ubuntu Touch has advantages and disadvantages (as other concurrents projects).
Your tendency toward an ideal world where all contributions could (or should) be available upstream clashes with a simple reality: many users prefer a non-mainline device that works to a mainline device that doesn’t work fully or is too slow.
And that’s why Halium is useful (currently) and why some people support and use UT (or Droidian or FuriOS).
Endlessly repeating all the "negative" things you think about certain compromises UT makes or about certain architectural choices that have been inherited and retained for lack of a realistic alternative does not seem to me to be effective in this context.

Mario.CH

Hi grenudi,

As a user—and therefore not a programmer—when I read your post and try to understand what you’re aiming to achieve, I’m actually confused.

You write the following at the end:

So: Should You Use Ubuntu Touch?

Yes, if: you enjoy the experience for its own sake, a Volla or Fairphone works for
you, you want to be part of a warm and close-knit community, you enjoy maintaining
interesting software history. You want to run model trains, not build railways.

No, if: you want your contributions to move the needle on Linux mobile broadly, you
want to upstream kernel support for new hardware, improve Wayland for all phone users,
ship apps that work everywhere, or be part of something that compounds at the ecosystem
level.

This gives me the impression that you’ve actually already made up your mind, which is why I have a serious question for you:

Why this post, since, as you yourself write, there are alternative mobile OSes where excellent programmers like yourself can contribute their best.
Actually, you should create such an OS yourself and thereby draw all the people who seem to be on the wrong track here over to it.

Because people like me don’t choose UT as a mobile OS that’s better than Android, iOS, or the other Linux-based OSes you mentioned, but rather as an alternative mobile OS that can make calls, play music, take and store photos, use GPS and other sensors, and browse the internet a bit.
And thus, views the other high-tech stuff as little more than a bonus.

Of course, there are also people who want more, but I can't speak for them.

Greetings
Mario

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

pparent

@grenudi

Would you like to share more about your own mobile experience? I.e what mobile OS are you currently daily-driving and have you been using those last 8 years? Would you recommend using it? It might allow to understand more your stance! Thank you!