Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years
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Hi @dobey ,
How true - how true.
And if one refers to the original UNIX, - oh no, it is always such a thing, how far one looks back into history, because in the end we end up with electricity or not electricity, so 1 and 0.But, the important thing in this comparison is, the joint work of software engineering and hardware engineering is crucial to great success.
And when enough money flows to the creators, much is truly possible.
Greetings Mario
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@dobey
More likely "kernel" not "os" no ?
I mean, android/linux is far from being gnu/linux no ?2015-2023 : Meizu MX4 now in legacy drawer by lack of pristine battery 😫
2023-***** : Nexus 5 (16.04 OTA 25) for daily use, slowly dying 🤕
2024-***** : Fairphone 5 waiting UT for freedom 😉
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@keneda
Linux can be used to refer to OSes based on the Linux kernel.
GNU/Linux is used to refer to OSes also with the constraint of licensing.I don't do politics, but if I understand correctly, Ubuntu Touch cannot be considered a GNU/Linux OS because of the firmware blobs necessary to make it run.
So Android is a full Linux OS, same as Ubuntu Touch, but one doesn't lock the user to its ecosystem, Ubuntu Touch is more open and more manageable (manageable not being customizable).
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@keneda said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
More likely "kernel" not "os" no ?
I mean, android/linux is far from being gnu/linux no ?Linux is only a kernel. If you're going to refer to "Linux" as all the things on top as well, then it still includes Android.
FWIW, Alpine Linux is also not a GNU/Linux, since it doesn't use glibc. There is no requirement that all distributions of Linux must be compatible with each other, and Alpine and Android are just as much distributions of Linux, as Ubuntu and Fedora are.
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@applee said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
I don't do politics, but if I understand correctly, Ubuntu Touch cannot be considered a GNU/Linux OS because of the firmware blobs necessary to make it run.
No. The GNU there refers to userspace components, primarily the C library used. Ubuntu Touch is GNU/Linux, because it uses glibc and the GNU software stack in userspace. Whether there are proprietary components getting loaded into the kernel, or running in a container to enable hardware, is unrelated.
Technically speaking, Ubuntu Touch is two Linux distributions in one, at least on Android based devices, where we run minimal set of Android components in a container.
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@dobey said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
If you're going to refer to "Linux" as all the things on top as well, then it still includes Android.
That's the point, i don't do that, and prefer to be more precise when i talk about OS and kernel, to avoid confusion.
Most people think about GNU/Linux OS when talking about "Linux" OS without even knowing what's GNU.
If we call "Linux" any OS that runs Linux kernel, that can lead to people thinking those are the same, when they are not, resulting in more confusion.
That's my point of view, but anyone can have another one
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Like the broken record that i am ........we need to make UT more like the desktop version.......if i had the hardware and know how i would port ubuntu desktop to my phone .......
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@developerbayman said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
we need to make UT more like the desktop version.
I don't agree that this is a thing we need. As a user, I don't feel that I need it.
But it's fine to want it. Why is this a thing you want? -
@Moem quite simply put ....the power of a desktop in your pocket ......all i see with this project is im not sure how to say it but here it goes......we take ubuntu and add a mobile window manager then disable all the functions/features that make ubuntu ubuntu then start totally all over to bring said features back from scratch ignoring the years of development that has benifited ubuntu ......it just makes no sense to reinvent the wheel .....also factors like some of us only have a phone ......im actually homeless ...thankfully i have family and im ok now so i can set up my orange pi 5 .....but this will not always be the case ......probably sooner than later then ill only have my phone ......i totally bought this phone just for UT thinking it was something that its not .......with that being said now knowing what i know im dissapointed ......also with that being said i dont want to go back to android on this device because it will feel like defeat .....also this is my daily driver ....currently phone calls dont work ....and thats ok ......UT needs developers .....im a developer .....so here i am stuck between a rock and a hard place ......so if i could just get a little leeway without having to live in something i call "setup hell“ ...trying to hack workarounds for basic functionality ..for example .....apt install python default-jdk thonny apache mysql-server phpmyadmin and a few others would mean ....well the reason i started down this path in the first place .......also then i could help more to develop UT mobile applications ....i see nothing wrong with clickable packages i quite like the format actually ......i just have great issue with the ommission of everything eles ......is UT linux or not? .......right now i can do very little with the tools i have ....soon all ill have is UT ....and sadly this would not be a good dev platform to be stuck with ......i understand phones are limited in scope from storage size to ram .....but in the end it should be up to the user to cherry pick what they need from the ubuntu ecosystem ......but we cant ......i could go on ....but im realizing this is getting long ......aldo i dont want to upset people because i realize alot of work as went in on what we have today and being continued by amazing people ......imagine if the gates of ubuntu were opened how fast and how much development would come to UT .........right now im feeling like im trying to drive a car without a engine .......just saying
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@developerbayman Okay, your needs are valid, but I do think they're a-typical.
(Also on a personal note I hope your circumstances will improve. Your life sounds really rough.) -
@Moem thanks man i appriciate that .....also as much as i might complain .....the UT community is filled with such wonderful people as yourself .....i cant walk away from that
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@developerbayman the way I see it, most of your issues are not because of the 'locked down' nature of Ubuntu Touch, but because of the 'old' codebase of xenial and the lack of upstream drivers for your device hardware. The lack of device drivers would cause a great majority of the plethora of software in the Ubuntu archives to simply not run on your device.
Nothing stops you from making your device's root file system permanently r/w and then doing a
sudo apt update & sudo apt upgrade. But the hours needing to be put in to make such a scenario work reliably across all the supported devices would be so prohibitive, we'd have less functionality than we have now, not more. (I am bringing to mind that making fs r/w is not working in your case anymore the way you remember it working before, but my point stands in general.)You mention running UT for you is like driving a car without an engine. But here we come at the issue of purpose. The purpose of a car is to be driven, so it needs an engine. The purpose of the UT project is not to deliver a development station to your pocket, therefore it dispenses with all the things you feel are needed to make it into one. So the analogy breaks down somewhat.
I echo @Moem's (she/her) sentiments, and send much strength and positivity your way.
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Lol yeah i see your point ......i guess ill just make it happen ....so im thinking what ill do is instead of making a “python helper” i exapand on that and make a "dev-helper” app which then presents the user with options to install whatever they need as far as a dev platform covering python,java,lamp,nodejs and anything eles .....not sure how far ill get think ill be out in a week or two so ....idk i have a been experimenting with bash script to install python/pip once i get that functioning properly ill mod it to do the same for other development platforms ........i got to admit ....one minute im all gung ho about development ......then the next im all depressed and cant think straight .....sucks....i bought a trailer to live in but the park wont approve me to live there im not a felon or sex offender i work my credit is ok ......the only thing i can think of is my roomate/friend is trans .....makes no sense other than that .....its so hard to focus on development when my well being is so up in the air ......i own a home i cant live in "mind blown” .....i tried contacting attorneys but no one wants to take my case .......im old school i tend to handle problems on my own and keep to myself ....i have severe trust issues so if i tend to vent on here im sorry its just given the nature of the UT community i feel like i can vent not be judged be safe and then get very intelligent input from yall .......thanks for that thanks for giving me safe space UT community
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On thing i cant compain about UT and i love is if you dont like something ....change it
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I like UT for two reasons: It's not Google and it's not Apple. Oh, and it works. That makes three reasons.
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@kristatos said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
I don't understand why people want to change from iOS/Android to UT but on the other hand still want to use all their services. In my opinion one effort of UT is, that you don't have to use accounts and services from these big companies and still have a functional and free phone in your hand.
I agree. Big Tech surveils you 24/7, exploits your most private data, and tries to control what information you have access to. I am so not down for that. If the only choice was Apple or Android, I would not have a smart phone.
