Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years

[ktatar156]

@arubislander You're right, I didn't think in that way... So maybe, we should try to convince some established provider to prepare 'special' offer for UT users and share some part of revenue with Uports Foundation. So it'll take major part of risk related, but on the other hand, get some additional clients and profit.
I'll try to handle with this topic (but I don't have any experience and connections in this area); I suppose, I should start with some questionnaire in our community to get some predictions, how much people would be interested in such service. Do you guys know there I should start? This forum or some other places (e.g. telegram?)?
Secondly, I'll try to get connections with some major opensource cloud providers. Or maybe, someone already know some people in this business?

[wizardi3]

@ktatar156 Here's a link to test browser security from the Electronic Frontier Foundation

https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/

There is a reason for not having extensions.

[Mario.CH]

Hi @zubozrout ,

So, I replied to your post (with inclusion of the title post by Ktatar156:

@ktatar156 said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:

I decided to set up my phone as primary (and configure must-have features in my opinion) - and then, problems starts:

There is no out-of-box mail app that could work with Gmail with push notification;
Importing Google Contacts also not working.

So these two are a regression in comparison to few years ago usage while I had MX4.

Lack of native open-source Firefox (used in most linux distros) (fragmentation of software continues....) - in my opinion, the resources should be utilized to port Firefox on UT instead of creating new Web-browser.
Plenty of apps in Store are out-dated or not working properly anymore (or are only simply web bookmarks)
Support for Android apps still require a lot of work (e.g. GPS is not working).

Above list is based on my personal needs and unfortunately, excepts open source and privacy aspects of using UT, I don't see any advantages for myself from using this phone

).

You have replied to the post of Kristatos following:

@zubozrout said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:

Sadly some governments/cities/banks basically force you to use their Android or iOS apps or rely on WhatsApp if you want to talk to them. We do not live in an ideal world and I've been very lucky Waydroid got to UT when it got as if I didn't have that choice I would have to switch to Android just because of that. And surely I would stop using UT if I only had a phone with it laying all the time somewhere home.

Now I suspect that Kritatos himself knows that many participants, in the possibilities (apps) of the smartphone, make it very easy for themselves (governments,banks,ecetera). In my opinion, he finds that many people no longer want to use Android/iOS devices, but are actually not willing to give up what they are now used to.

From my point of view, Ubports is not obligated to provide the desired apps, or do you think Google/Apple created the mentioned apps for free for the organizations mentioned in your post?

As I wrote in my post, I have nothing against you, it was just the same old story in the reviews.
I'll try again: it's up to companies, organizations and especially governments to make their apps available for all operating systems, at least that would only be fair if they reach a certain size or turnover.

That's just how I see it.

With kind regards Mario

[zubozrout]

@mario-ch I agree with you. Which is why I said "we do not live in an ideal world". If I've stayed in my home country I would likely still be fine avoiding Android. It wasn't the case. But I can be happy about the fact Waydroid is available, I can run it whenever I need it, and I can still enjoy UT full-time. Considering the circumstances it is a win win scenario.

"Ubports is not obligated to provide the desired apps" - of course. They are actually not obligated to provide anything. No one is unless there is some contract or whatever in place. But I think having an option of Waydroid at least the way it is now is basically a must have. Unless you really want to say "so long and thanks for all the fish" to users who can't physically live in their country without certain apps. Saying it is not UBports fault is true, but since that's the case why avoiding a workaround like that if nothing else seems feasible?

Anyway, I am on UT since the release of MX4 with UT in 2015 and I don't plan to go anywhere else. With 20.04 around once dust settles down a bit things should become way more interesting again and I am really looking forward to that wishing UBports the best. And I am grateful to everyone who makes this possible. Even if I am not as enthusiastic about things as I used to be - must be me getting older and the amount of worries getting higher :).

[MrT10001]

I have held off on this thread, but I thought I would put my bit in now!

Bought 2 x BQ Aquaris e4.5 when Canonical and BQ put them on the market that day. One was mine and the other was mine too, but I handed it out for people to play with.

As a phone, text, MMS, camera and web browsing, most used and thought it was adequate. For social media, it was no and a resounding no at that.

Ok so come to 2022/2023. Canonical has devolved Ubuntu Touch to the community when the phones and tablets did not take off as planned - you have to try these things! So now Ubuntu Touch is run as a charitable foundation (UBports) by volunteers. There is some commercial working from what I can see, but most is run by enthusiasts and volunteers. This means your data is not going to be scraped and sold to the online bidders so you can get spammed with ads (thanks Amazon, Google, Apple, Xiaomi......). It also means that some things work, some things don't and it is not for everyone as they want a device that just well works for what they they want.
Some things won't work as UT is open source, i.e. Internet banking apps (encryption), Social Media, such as SnapChat and Whatsapp and so on. (BTW this is my opinion from what I have observed and read).

The Browser issues has been strongly covered with reasons why Morph is used and not Chromium or Firefox, but I find Morph overall very usable and suitable for me.

The Apps issues has also been extensively covered and again a lot are coded by volunteers and enthusiasts who spend their own free time and money running and maintaining them (kudos given for that). If you want an app that is not in the store, create it yourself, or use the browser, or heaven forbid, use your Android or Apple phone. It is that simple. What I cannot use on UT, I will use on my computers, or Android phone (my Iphone is out of Action, but was needed for one app).

I don't use Waydroid as I don't see the point personally (using UT is to avoid some Android apps), as I said if I need to use an app that is not in the store, I will use it on another device. But for some Waydroid is convergence with Android apps and I see why people are enthusiastic about it and again Kudos to the people setting it up and running with it.

Options, options and options, there are so many to do what you want. There is always a way and work around.

Thank you all for your hard work on UT and also the criticism as criticism makes things better in most cases.

Kind regards to all,
Mr T10001 (I pity the fool).

[dobey]

@ktatar156 said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:

I've been using linux on a desktop computer for 20 years, but unfortunately on phones we didn't make any spectacular success.

Ironically, Linux is also the most widely used smartphone OS in the world.

[Mario.CH]

Hi @dobey ,

How true - how true.
And if one refers to the original UNIX, - oh no, it is always such a thing, how far one looks back into history, because in the end we end up with electricity or not electricity, so 1 and 0.

But, the important thing in this comparison is, the joint work of software engineering and hardware engineering is crucial to great success.

And when enough money flows to the creators, much is truly possible.

Greetings Mario

[Keneda]

@dobey
More likely "kernel" not "os" no ?
I mean, android/linux is far from being gnu/linux no ?

[AppLee]

@keneda
Linux can be used to refer to OSes based on the Linux kernel.
GNU/Linux is used to refer to OSes also with the constraint of licensing.

I don't do politics, but if I understand correctly, Ubuntu Touch cannot be considered a GNU/Linux OS because of the firmware blobs necessary to make it run.

So Android is a full Linux OS, same as Ubuntu Touch, but one doesn't lock the user to its ecosystem, Ubuntu Touch is more open and more manageable (manageable not being customizable).

[dobey]

@keneda said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:

More likely "kernel" not "os" no ?
I mean, android/linux is far from being gnu/linux no ?

Linux is only a kernel. If you're going to refer to "Linux" as all the things on top as well, then it still includes Android.

FWIW, Alpine Linux is also not a GNU/Linux, since it doesn't use glibc. There is no requirement that all distributions of Linux must be compatible with each other, and Alpine and Android are just as much distributions of Linux, as Ubuntu and Fedora are.

[dobey]

@applee said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:

I don't do politics, but if I understand correctly, Ubuntu Touch cannot be considered a GNU/Linux OS because of the firmware blobs necessary to make it run.

No. The GNU there refers to userspace components, primarily the C library used. Ubuntu Touch is GNU/Linux, because it uses glibc and the GNU software stack in userspace. Whether there are proprietary components getting loaded into the kernel, or running in a container to enable hardware, is unrelated.

Technically speaking, Ubuntu Touch is two Linux distributions in one, at least on Android based devices, where we run minimal set of Android components in a container.

[Keneda]

@dobey said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:

If you're going to refer to "Linux" as all the things on top as well, then it still includes Android.

That's the point, i don't do that, and prefer to be more precise when i talk about OS and kernel, to avoid confusion.

Most people think about GNU/Linux OS when talking about "Linux" OS without even knowing what's GNU.

If we call "Linux" any OS that runs Linux kernel, that can lead to people thinking those are the same, when they are not, resulting in more confusion.

That's my point of view, but anyone can have another one

[developerbayman]

Like the broken record that i am ........we need to make UT more like the desktop version.......if i had the hardware and know how i would port ubuntu desktop to my phone .......

[Moem]

@developerbayman said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:

we need to make UT more like the desktop version.

I don't agree that this is a thing we need. As a user, I don't feel that I need it.
But it's fine to want it. Why is this a thing you want?

[developerbayman]

@Moem quite simply put ....the power of a desktop in your pocket ......all i see with this project is im not sure how to say it but here it goes......we take ubuntu and add a mobile window manager then disable all the functions/features that make ubuntu ubuntu then start totally all over to bring said features back from scratch ignoring the years of development that has benifited ubuntu ......it just makes no sense to reinvent the wheel .....also factors like some of us only have a phone ......im actually homeless ...thankfully i have family and im ok now so i can set up my orange pi 5 .....but this will not always be the case ......probably sooner than later then ill only have my phone ......i totally bought this phone just for UT thinking it was something that its not .......with that being said now knowing what i know im dissapointed ......also with that being said i dont want to go back to android on this device because it will feel like defeat .....also this is my daily driver ....currently phone calls dont work ....and thats ok ......UT needs developers .....im a developer .....so here i am stuck between a rock and a hard place ......so if i could just get a little leeway without having to live in something i call "setup hell“ ...trying to hack workarounds for basic functionality ..for example .....apt install python default-jdk thonny apache mysql-server phpmyadmin and a few others would mean ....well the reason i started down this path in the first place .......also then i could help more to develop UT mobile applications ....i see nothing wrong with clickable packages i quite like the format actually ......i just have great issue with the ommission of everything eles ......is UT linux or not? .......right now i can do very little with the tools i have ....soon all ill have is UT ....and sadly this would not be a good dev platform to be stuck with ......i understand phones are limited in scope from storage size to ram .....but in the end it should be up to the user to cherry pick what they need from the ubuntu ecosystem ......but we cant ......i could go on ....but im realizing this is getting long ......aldo i dont want to upset people because i realize alot of work as went in on what we have today and being continued by amazing people ......imagine if the gates of ubuntu were opened how fast and how much development would come to UT .........right now im feeling like im trying to drive a car without a engine .......just saying

[Moem]

@developerbayman Okay, your needs are valid, but I do think they're a-typical.
(Also on a personal note I hope your circumstances will improve. Your life sounds really rough.)

[developerbayman]

@Moem thanks man i appriciate that .....also as much as i might complain .....the UT community is filled with such wonderful people as yourself .....i cant walk away from that

[arubislander]

@developerbayman the way I see it, most of your issues are not because of the 'locked down' nature of Ubuntu Touch, but because of the 'old' codebase of xenial and the lack of upstream drivers for your device hardware. The lack of device drivers would cause a great majority of the plethora of software in the Ubuntu archives to simply not run on your device.

Nothing stops you from making your device's root file system permanently r/w and then doing a sudo apt update & sudo apt upgrade. But the hours needing to be put in to make such a scenario work reliably across all the supported devices would be so prohibitive, we'd have less functionality than we have now, not more. (I am bringing to mind that making fs r/w is not working in your case anymore the way you remember it working before, but my point stands in general.)

You mention running UT for you is like driving a car without an engine. But here we come at the issue of purpose. The purpose of a car is to be driven, so it needs an engine. The purpose of the UT project is not to deliver a development station to your pocket, therefore it dispenses with all the things you feel are needed to make it into one. So the analogy breaks down somewhat.

I echo @Moem's (she/her) sentiments, and send much strength and positivity your way.

[developerbayman]

Lol yeah i see your point ......i guess ill just make it happen ....so im thinking what ill do is instead of making a “python helper” i exapand on that and make a "dev-helper” app which then presents the user with options to install whatever they need as far as a dev platform covering python,java,lamp,nodejs and anything eles .....not sure how far ill get think ill be out in a week or two so ....idk i have a been experimenting with bash script to install python/pip once i get that functioning properly ill mod it to do the same for other development platforms ........i got to admit ....one minute im all gung ho about development ......then the next im all depressed and cant think straight .....sucks....i bought a trailer to live in but the park wont approve me to live there im not a felon or sex offender i work my credit is ok ......the only thing i can think of is my roomate/friend is trans .....makes no sense other than that .....its so hard to focus on development when my well being is so up in the air ......i own a home i cant live in "mind blown” .....i tried contacting attorneys but no one wants to take my case .......im old school i tend to handle problems on my own and keep to myself ....i have severe trust issues so if i tend to vent on here im sorry its just given the nature of the UT community i feel like i can vent not be judged be safe and then get very intelligent input from yall .......thanks for that thanks for giving me safe space UT community

[developerbayman]

On thing i cant compain about UT and i love is if you dont like something ....change it