LockAppStore should be on OpenStore or?
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@007fred50 said in LockAppStore should be on OpenStore or?:
Just thought it was a good idea to have the LockAppStore. so big company not roll the world.
I'm trying to understand what you are doing here, and what you mean by this... and failing. Sorry!
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@007fred50
Hi,
I agree 100% with what @Alter said. And I also think that this app approach does not fit our philosophy of alternative operating system against Android and Apple IO and others.Greetings Mario
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@mario-ch
I think the fact "big companies" publish apps, therefore closed source, for Ubuntu Touch is not a problem.That could be good to see, for exemple, a bank publishing its app, and then, user no longer have to install waydroid, to use banking app.
Installing an android on UT to use specific closed source apps is no more any good than using those apps native, it's even worse.
Then i don't see why those big companies couldn't publish directly on OpenStore.
Now like liberty is the basis in open source as reminds @AppLee on my thread , i also don't see any reason to drop this app from openstore, but it needs to be in a proper place with proper warning.
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Is it really possible that a big company concentrate human resources and go to the trouble of developing a sophisticated .click for UT (for example a bank app) ?
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@keneda
So, from that point of view I agree with you, I forgot to think about it, because as a Swiss citizen I don't believe that a Swiss bank would bother to deal with UT and write an app. The banks here are very conceited.I have the same opinion about even bigger and global companies.
My hope is that if UT can hold its own, there would be many smaller app providers that would run local social media platforms.
I'm thinking of FluffyChat on Swiss servers, cetera.Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
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@007fred50 you are not doing anything to hide source of the apps - so your claim that it does not give the source is not true.
any click installed from there with qml will be visible on the system.For what it is worth - you can already use compiled qt and the 'proprietary' licence on the openstore - therefore you do not have to reveal code for any confined app.
to really hide source you would have to use compiled qt.
as for a alternate store, I think the idea is a good one - putting a restriction on not allowing other stores would have been an eairly end for the openstore back in Canonical days. But perhaps we should update the warning on installing from third party.
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Hello all,
I can see you do not want the App (LockAppStore) More on OpenStore, so I have removed it. !
I stop the Vote here !Sincerely
007fred50 -
@keneda said in LockAppStore should be on OpenStore or?:
Now like liberty is the basis in open source as reminds @AppLee on my thread , i also don't see any reason to drop this app from openstore, but i needs to be in a proper place with proper warning.
Liberty is the basis of open source. Everyone is encouraged to contribute, share, modify, use.
That doesn't necessarily mean that everything should be allowed on OpenStore. Open source fora also have moderators and anti-spam protection for a good reason. This app creates an app store outside of control of OpenStore admins, where anyone can publish a closed source app. The developer says the new store is aimed at large companies who want to make a closed source app available for UT. These companies can already do that on OpenStore. Big companies won't choose a smaller store. So why a new store devoted to closed source? This app only plays into the hands of malware creators, and I'm worried it will be inspiration for more 'apps' of its kind. For me, this feels like reason enough to ban the app. But perhaps this isn't necessary, and the developer (after reading concerns) will take it down himself. [EDIT: He just did.] -
Personnally speaking I don't like the term ban and Opensource being mentioned too close together. They seem odd bed fellows. Whether this App would have worked, been of any use with or without a clearer warning or proved a dead end is now a moot question as the developer has removed it.
Choice is also a freedom and everyone has the freedom of choice to use or not use any app on the OpenStore.
This paticular app did raise a few good questions which again speaking personnally I don't think we got to the bottom of, and I don't mean the Big Companies making apps for the OpenStore. They will not look further than iOS or Android.
Still would have like to have seen the poll run till the end and find out the results. -
@lakotaubp said in LockAppStore should be on OpenStore or?:
Personnally speaking I don't like the term ban and Opensource being mentioned too close together.
Just for the record: I, too, cannot imagine a situation where one would want to ban a pure open source app. The term open source was mentioned in the thread when talking about the spirit of liberty in our community. This app had a label proprietary, and any possible banning referred to a closed source (promoting) app with unclear motives.
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@alter Yes I see the point, but sometimes the initial reaction can prove to be not quite right in the long term and maybe a strong warning would have been all that was needed.
The app in question and I maybe wrong on this is opensource. Was developed by a forum member openly asking questions and getting help on the forum then submitting it for the OpenStore and getting help with that again from community members. The app is then there to be used or not. I will agree that things could maybe have been clearer to the end intention of the app an how it would work. If people wanted to use any apps loaded onto the 'store' I am also not sure, but most would not for the very reasons you state.
I know this is not a direct comparison but there is another project that aims to open up apps from an outside store over which we have no control many from big companies. WayDroid.
Now as I said not a direct comparison but the basics are fairly similar as I see it, and I must point out that is my personal opinion.
An app is a tool really. How you pick, work with and use that tool is down to the end user, as long as all the info and risks are clear. -
@lakotaubp
Despite the reasons you mentioned, we should (in my opinion) keep the good "OpenSource" high, also because the UT project is still on very shaky legs, since we are dependent on the phone manufacturers. It would be enough if they would no longer allow rooting of the devices for some reason. -
@mario-ch Totally agree on keeping to the full ethos of Open Source. As for shaky legs I must disagree I thing the project is on firmer ground and with a brighter future more now than ever, and this community is a big part if that.
As for phone manufacturers some are already unrootable and others are making it harder. Which I guess is nothing to do with what we or any other Open Surce projects are doing or planning but pure commercial self serving business reasons. Use our phone use our apps use our ecosystem, give us your data. -
@lakotaubp : I also understand your point of view, and banning it has become hypothetical as the developer already took it offline. Maybe you're right, and better information and a strong warning would suffice for such an app intended to be an alternative app store. I also don't want to discourage development. In that respect, I liked @Keneda 's idea of a separate category on OpenStore for alternative app stores. This way, a standard big warning could be shown, making users aware of the possible risk of 3rd party stores. Nevertheless, for this app I personally didn't see any good reason to be, as big companies wouldn't have used it to make/distribute closed source apps, which was the developer's plan. Besides for big companies, I don't see valid reasons for closed source to exist.
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It is an interesting thought - suppose a large games company made a 'games store' - using all the features you would want for that type of thing - remembering what you bought, transferring to new phones your games and saves, purchasing games, ect.
It would be great to see, and the matter of trust would be down to who made that games store and how they screen apps, but I think in general we should be open to allowing different stores.
Also perhaps once we install the right media pieces for video playback (wideviene, possible on armhf phones currently) who is to say we can't have google play movies?
I think an alternate store could be a good thing, just that the developer claims that his app somehow was hiding source is not true.
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@lakotaubp : One of my thoughts is that if we allow too many proprietary applications, suddenly our operating system will no longer be different from the leading systems. For what reason would you then choose UT and go to the trouble of installing it, and risk not even being able to use a Bluetooth car phone system, which is actually absolutely necessary for road safety. Or other funcions that work on the original shipped phone (NFC, VoLTE, among others)?
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@mario-ch Because we choose too. People can already not use UT and get all the things you mention. We on the other hand want an OpenSource OS that does the same without all the baggage. Not evryone will want or use it, but I think enough will when it is all as easy to use straight from the box. The pain and struggle will be worth it, and you and everyone else here is part of that. A very important part.
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@lakotaubp : what @Mario-CH is saying is that if we want an open source OS and fill it to the brim with closed source apps, it becomes again like the rest of the OS'es that we try to escape from and it defeats the whole point of having UT. That doesn't mean that a closed source banking app shouldn't be welcomed (if a bank would make it), but we should in general not promote closed source. Especially if made by home developers. Big companies (like a bank) have lots of payed developers to ensure safety of their proprietary apps. You decide if you want to use the app based on trust you have in the company. A home developer doesn't have a team of coders, and their app will benefit from being open source, so others can check & correct code. Also, mal/spyware will be prevented.
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Hi everyone.
Here are my thoughts on the topics and it's close to Lakotaub's.An alternative store is not something I need but it's something I welcome.
Closed source apps is also not something I need but it might be helpful in some cases.
I don't see a threat by using an alternative store:- Because click not signed by the open-store are not trusted and a warning is already displayed.
- I don't think it's possible to bypass this warning without hacking the OS
Closed source apps even without code review is no big deal as long as they are confined.
Now for the more recent topic about having a store full of closed source apps.
Again more apps in the store (closed or not) is a good thing. It gives users a choice.
What I want from Ubuntu Touch is the same thing I hoped when Android was released ; an operating system that can run the services I want for my personal needs.
What makes me think that Ubuntu Touch is the best mobile OS is:- Confinement
- The media hub allowing to share data between apps
- and icing on the cake: it's fully open source which is an alignment with my philosophy
But using closed source apps or software is not a deal breaker for me, neither is using a service provided by a big company (as long as the service match my needs).
If I dislike Google so much is because they are never developing a good (with regard to my needs) service. The only one I use is youbute (but without having an account) and despite the poor user experience the service is okay I guess (meaning there is content I want to see and I can see it without too much trouble). -
@applee hi, If you say that you see no threat from using an alternative store.
I say that I see no benefit from using an alternative store.
These are, according to me, both not good arguments, but reflect the "mainstream" discussion we have recently in all media.
My motto is: Where Opensource is on it, there should also be Opensource in it.
Or: Ubuntu Touch I love it.
