Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04

Lakotaubp

@nero355 My newest phone for UT is a OP5 and that was over two years old when I got it. Before that it was a OP3 and a OP1. Have replaced the OP1 battery but all still work and I have another OP5 to do when I can. Looking good for this https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-news-1/post/ubuntu-touch-and-the-10-year-smartphone-3799

Lakotaubp

All this thread is proving to me is why the decision on which devices may or may not make it is so hard. People love and rely on their UT phones no doubt each is as individual as it's owner. Which is why UT is so special. That is also why cutting loose any phone is hard choice. It's not just the phone it's the people too as Dalton has already said. The fact however remains that decsiosions will have to be made at some point in the very near future and some people will feel upset whichever way it goes. Almost a no win situation. Except by making it the project will continue and move forward, continuing to grow and develop as it does so. I'm sure that is something we all want.

AppLee

I think the main message for the survival of your individual device is to take action.

Gather a group of people interested in savekeeping this device
If you gather enough people and knowledge maybe your device team will be able to successfully port 20.04.

I think the foundation and core team will help as much as they can.

~~____________________________________________________________________________________________________________~~
As a reminder, UBports foundation is not a company. Driving a living community of beings is not as easy as leading a company.
We are no customer but members and contributors.

A company answers to money and customer depending on how much they spend have an impact on it.
Loosing a member has a different impact on a community depending wether or not this member was contributing a lot or less...

Acting like a company would mean stop listenning to members whose contribution is considered not important enough.
I think we can all agree it won't be a good thing.
So keep that in mind when pondering the decision made by those who contribute a lot, listens to others and try to satisfy the most people.

I think everyone in the core team, the members of the foundation and major contributors are doing a fantastic job.
They explain what they do, why they do it. They try to federate people and ask for contributions because UBports depends on it. The people paid to work on Ubuntu Touch cannot maintain the OS and port it to devices by themselves.

Money and talents are required, that's true, but UBports is not a company.

nero355

@moem said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

Please read what I wrote. Not all porting, but most of it. And that explains why the devs cannot guarantee what the porters will or won't do, and also why they cannot come up with a reliable list of devices that will definitely remain supported. They can only tell us what they, themselves, have planned.

So there are no guidelines for the community porters either ?!

Personally I have never bought a phone that was younger than three years. My current daily driver is from 2016. We're all different.

So how do you deal with worn out batteries ?!

@stanwood said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

I think the reality is much more complex than that.
Our core team collaborates mainly in open discussions so that everyone's work is as effective as possible.

The functioning of UBports is not comparable to that of a traditional commercial company based on performance and profit.

But every team needs somekind of planning ahead I think ?!
How does the team take care of that part ?

@lakotaubp said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

My newest phone for UT is a OP5 and that was over two years old when I got it. Before that it was a OP3 and a OP1. Have replaced the OP1 battery but all still work and I have another OP5 to do when I can. Looking good for this https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-news-1/post/ubuntu-touch-and-the-10-year-smartphone-3799

Where do you get your batteries from ??

@lakotaubp said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

That is also why cutting loose any phone is hard choice.
The fact however remains that decsiosions will have to be made at some point in the very near future and some people will feel upset whichever way it goes. Almost a no win situation. Except by making it the project will continue and move forward, continuing to grow and develop as it does so. I'm sure that is something we all want.

Phones going EOL isn't a bad thing in some cases because you simply need certain features which only newer phones have...

And in some cases it's simply because they have become too slow for new software like most of the BQ phones by now have become...

@applee said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

I think the main message for the survival of your individual device is to take action.

Gather a group of people interested in savekeeping this device

If you gather enough people and knowledge maybe your device team will be able to successfully port 20.04.

I think the foundation and core team will help as much as they can.

But why waste all that time and talent on too slow and outdated devices ?!

As a reminder, UBports foundation is not a company. Driving a living community of beings is not as easy as leading a company.
We are no customer but members and contributors.

A company answers to money and customer depending on how much they spend have an impact on it.
Loosing a member has a different impact on a community depending wether or not this member was contributing a lot or less...

Acting like a company would mean stop listenning to members whose contribution is considered not important enough.
I think we can all agree it won't be a good thing.
So keep that in mind when pondering the decision made by those who contribute a lot, listens to others and try to satisfy the most people.
Money and talents are required, that's true, but UBports is not a company.

I am not saying they should become a company but the impression I have so far is that certain things need better guidance/management/organization!

Moem

@nero355 said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

So there are no guidelines for the community porters either ?!

I don't know, I'm not a porter. But it seems likely that there are.

I don't understand the 'So' here. For me, that does not follow at all. Also all the '?!' make you sound agitated or demanding. Just a hint!

So how do you deal with worn out batteries ?!

I don't know yet, it's still working. Is that so amazing? It's just six years old.

nero355

@moem said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

I don't know, I'm not a porter. But it seems likely that there are.

So that's a NO then...

I don't understand the 'So' here. For me, that does not follow at all. Also all the '?!' make you sound agitated or demanding. Just a hint!

The ?! means I am surprised or shocked...

I don't know yet, it's still working. Is that so amazing? It's just six years old.

I think you are very lucky indeed!

Most batteries get a lot worse in about 3 years and are sometimes barely useable after 5 years!

Maybe you got used to it step by step over the years ??
Have you compared SoT's of your phone against when the phone was new ?

Lakotaubp

@nero355 Batteries have been been an issue for me the couple of times I've got them. A well known market place has many and a bit of reading rules out most. The one for OPO was some generic with a few good write up the Nexus 5 was Polarcell from Germany IIRC. No great problem.

AppLee

@nero355 said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

So there are no guidelines for the community porters either ?!

No, we cannot state that an individual should not work on a given project.
If one wants to port Ubuntu Touch 20.04 on a BQ4.5, they are welcome to try even if it probably won't bare fruit.

So how do you deal with worn out batteries ?!

Sometime you don't have to

But every team needs somekind of planning ahead I think ?!
How does the team take care of that part ?

Planning is based on open issues and priorities set internally.
But anyone can take upon themself to work on a non-priority issue if they want.
Right now the roadmap is clear : 20.04 because 16.04 is not supported anymore and there are security issues that will not be fixed.
The trade-off is that the fix should be back ported to 16.04 and this is a huge workload, so moving forward was decided.
Part of the core team still maintains 16.04, but no major work is done because it would be wasted if not easily transfered to 20.04

Managing priorities is done and that's why you do not see some features like integrating UTTT to the system settings.
The feature is available for people to use. It's not ideal but it's there, VoLTE is a more pressing matter and impacts all users.

Phones going EOL isn't a bad thing in some cases because you simply need certain features which only newer phones have...

Sometimes it is not as features dissapear in newer phones (e.g. Radio tuner)

And in some cases it's simply because they have become too slow for new software like most of the BQ phones by now have become...

Entering Ubuntu Touch that works fine on older devices depending on the user needs of course.
But for many the BQ 4.5 is still fast enough with Ubuntu Touch.

But why waste all that time and talent on too slow and outdated devices ?!

Why do anything?
Don't limit people's freedom because you don't know what they can do with it...

I am not saying they should become a company but the impression I have so far is that certain things need better guidance/management/organization!

I don't think you know what kind of management there is in the foundation.
And it seems that you also don't know how company are managed too. You seem to have a very simplified vision of how it works and how it should work.
I have a career in management and I heard this kind of speech from young employees. I showed them what a low level manager has to consider and told them that's just the tip of the iceberg.
They had no idea and I'm quite sure we have no idea what it is to manage a foundation like UBports with all the specificities of a community of volunteers...

Moem

@nero355 said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

@moem said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

I don't know, I'm not a porter. But it seems likely that there are.

So that's a NO then...

No, it isn't. It's an "I don't know". Again, please read what I wrote and don't put words in my mouth.

The ?! means I am surprised or shocked...

Then it seems you are surprised or shocked most of the time.

Maybe you got used to it step by step over the years ??

No, that can't be it. I've not even had it for half a year.

Have you compared SoT's of your phone against when the phone was new ?

No. I don't really care; it is what it is, and if I don't consider it good enough I will either get a different battery or a different phone.

And now I will take a break from reading your messages and replying to you, because our personal styles aren't very compatible. My own battery needs a recharge, so to speak.

aimar

Sorry, but I do not see the point for the discussion. We can share our ideas, but it seems that some posts are arguing against others.

I am not a teenager, lets say I am mid-age, but the BQ4.5 was my first smartphone! I did not want to have an iPhone or an Android based one, nor a WindowsPhone. So when Canonical launched this phone I though it was the right time to buy one. I am not a tech-geek nor a developer but I like to go against the tide. I am also, alone at work, using an Ubuntu as desktop among all the MS machines.

Surprisingly Canonical dropped its development and I felt disappointed. But thankfully UBPorts took it soon up again.

It has served me for 7 years. Some errors raised, some drawbacks, a reflash, etc. but in my opinion, it is a reason to dive into linux and something to enrich the experience. That is why I bought it.

Everything has an end and I understand that the involved people have their limits and also their desires. Why not? For instance, the may want to focus in newer devices to explore new capabilities. And that is marvellous.

As far as I am concerned, I will still use my BQE4.5 as my daily drive. I can make a phone call, send SMSs (sorry I am not a fan of social networks such as Whatsapp, Telegram, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc), I can send an email (Dekko2), I can navigate offline (PureMaps, UNav), I can read all kind documents (DocumentReader, SimpleReader, Seabass2), I can navigate (Morph), I can sync my calendar, I can take pictures and videos (they are not very good really), see them, I can even control my PC remotely (CuteVNC), and much more. Brian posted a list of the main downloaded apps in the General section of the forum and some are mentioned above.

It is not the most powerful device, nor the faster. But it really works. It has all the needed features, although it takes 3 s more to launch an app Who cares for 3 s!

I will not have updates. OK. I am sure that behind the curtains the improvements of each OTA are HUGE, but for common users as me, I suppose I will not lack them too much.

If the battery fails or, as it actually happens, the centre of the screen does not respond to my fingers, it is a hardware issue, not related to UBPorts or the software, but to the natural (programmed?) obsolescence. As I said, I like to go against the tide, so I keep using the phone even if I can not click on the number 5 of the telephone app. But then, there is UT Tweak Tool, to change to windows mode and move it to the working part of the screen. There is always a solution.

If any has keep reading until now, congratulations. What I may do to secure I keep using it, would be to download such apps that I may use in the future and keep a copy of the code (it is downloaded and stored in the phone: /opt/click.ubuntu.com). If ever I need one and it is not available in any repository I could still use it. Because even though they will not have the latest features, they work. I am grateful to all the developers that have done it possible.

nero355

@applee said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

No, we cannot state that an individual should not work on a given project.
If one wants to port Ubuntu Touch 20.04 on a BQ4.5, they are welcome to try even if it probably won't bare fruit.

Then why not give them at least some pointers in the right way ?!

Some kind of wishlist made by the Foundation/Core Team Developers ??

Sometime you don't have to

At some point you will have to unless you like hot batteries that can explode...

Managing priorities is done and that's why you do not see some features like integrating UTTT to the system settings.

But are there even plans to do so at this moment ??

VoLTE is a more pressing matter and impacts all users.

VoLTE and MMS issues it seems for both Ubuntu Touch and Jolla Sailfish so that's a good thing!

Sometimes it is not as features dissapear in newer phones (e.g. Radio tuner)

Not a core issue and easily replaceable so not a big deal IMHO

However when Core Features start to disappear like Modem/Data/WiFi/GPS/etc. then we would have a real issue!

Entering Ubuntu Touch that works fine on older devices depending on the user needs of course.
But for many the BQ 4.5 is still fast enough with Ubuntu Touch.

It works but it's not exactly what you would call fast enough...

Why do anything?

Come on...

Don't limit people's freedom because you don't know what they can do with it...

That's not what I am saying!

I don't think you know what kind of management there is in the foundation.

TRUE!

Because there is no information available about it and there is no sign of such a thing actually existing at the moment...

And it seems that you also don't know how company are managed too. You seem to have a very simplified vision of how it works and how it should work.
I have a career in management and I heard this kind of speech from young employees. I showed them what a low level manager has to consider and told them that's just the tip of the iceberg.

That's where you are wrong!

I have managed a big part of a company for many years and with success!
That's also the reason that I have all these questions : I see room for improvement!

They had no idea and I'm quite sure we have no idea what it is to manage a foundation like UBports with all the specificities of a community of volunteers...

Again : Lack of information!

Lakotaubp

@nero355 Remember this from earlier.
Please remember UT as an OS was developed for mobile devices. It was not ever intended to be a desktop operating system or run desktop apps full stop. This one has run for ever and it will not change. If you want something else find it and use it.

@nero355 said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

We talk about freedom/freedom of choice and you think that something that takes your freedom away should be on our phones or even compatible with our OS ?!
DAMN...

Everyone here or using UT does have freedom of choice. They can do what they want with their phones so can you. You want UT only then keep it that way. UT native apps then help develop them. Do something not just point out where everyone else is going wrong, having their freedom removed or are idiots. That is the point of opensource so I thought, use as you will, help others along the way and don't use it in a malicious way. Or have I missed something.

Feel free to state your case but do it in a polite way it is time to stop hinting that others views are incorrect, stupid, idiotic and such. It's not what we do. Also the ironic winking faces are not working or needed as I have mentioned before.

Just a reminder.

Bolly

I think I have already read this discussion. And I think it has strayed from the main topic. I think opening another topic to talk about it (if it is not already open) is the right thing to do.

I think what we need for when 20.04 arrives is....

Information one month before (for example) when the openstore apps are going to be removed.
An image with the last (two?) OTA's supported.

That in case of devices that can't be ported and the installer won't flash to 16.04.

spctrl

@bolly I agree. I think this is really the conclusion of this thread. Maintaining a 20.04 will most probably be too much work to do and maintain. Other supported OS'es for this device simply don't exist. Figuring out how to keep the apps and OTA images available should be doable.

From what I've seen poking around so far, it seems clicks and images remain available. So it's a matter of knowing where to find them and what to do with them once you have them. I was planning to further look into it this weekend and see how far I can get. (Unless someone else beats me to it, eheh)

Lakotaubp

@spctrl As the original poster do we have your Ok then to lock this thread and stop anymore of a ramble? It can always be used as a reference point. Thanks

spctrl

@lakotaubp I wanted to see what I could find out about images and clicks and post here if I found something relevant. But if you prefer to lock it, please do. I can always start a new thread if I have something I think is worth sharing

Lakotaubp

@spctrl Yes I think that would be the better and a cleaner option. Just refer back to this one if you need to. Long threads are a good reference point but can be a pain to search through. ood luck on you quest

Bolly

@bolly said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

I think I have already read this discussion. And I think it has strayed from the main topic. I think opening another topic to talk about it (if it is not already open) is the right thing to do.

To be clear, I was referring to the discussion on how the community is organised.

@spctrl said in Life with BQ4.5 after 20.04:

From what I've seen poking around so far, it seems clicks and images remain available. So it's a matter of knowing where to find them and what to do with them once you have them. I was planning to further look into it this weekend and see how far I can get. (Unless someone else beats me to it, eheh)

I think it is too early for that. 20.04 hasn't even been released yet. I think the question is to give some advance notice to see if we need to save any images or not. Same with the .clicks.