How important is strong hardware?
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I wonder for quite some time now, how many hardware resources UT needs.
Looking at standard flagship phones with 12GB of RAM, 4GB in most UT supporting phones seems almost rediculous. Though I'm quite convinced, that hardly anyone needs 12GB or more and Linux respectfully uses existing resources, I'd like to know if the hardware of e.g. the Volla Phones (1, 22, x) really is sufficient.
If I had 500€ and am about to buy a new device, is the Volla Phone 22 a good choice or should I consider e.g. the Fairphone 4 which seems much superior? Are 4GB of RAM enough or is the experience with twice the RAM much better (assuming RAM, CPU, GPU, etc. go hand in hand and more RAM means better hardware in general)?
Or is individual software to hardware adaption the key?What if the usage of Waydroid comes on top?
It would be nice if someone could give an overview and sort that out a bit.
My personal experience on several phones generally is, that (not always, but mostly) it's not really fluent (which also concerns simple gestures and scrolling in general). The browser reloads pages when quickly switching to another open app and back and generally it seems difficult to have more than one ore two apps open at the same time, since they all seem to buffer or reload most of the time when switching between them. But my impression is, that e.g. the Volla Phone 1 works better than the Volla Phone 22...
All my phones have 4GB of RAM (and according hardware) and I wonder if I had a much better experience on e.g. a Redmi Note 9 or Fairphone 4?Thanks!
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@jojumaxx FYI my FP4 with 8GB RAM is very fluid even with waydroid and a libertine container running.
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I'd say 6GB is the ideal but 8GB if you use Waydroid. Let's accept the fact that UT isn't as optimized as Android/iOS. So if we can get raw power, the better. On my FP4 with 6GB, it's generally smooth but it can slow down once I open Waydroid while having a browser open. I have to close the browser so that the system goes back to being responsive. This wasn't the case on my S10 with 8GB which stayed responsive even with Waydroid. If there's a 12GB variant of FP5, I'd personally get that
So I'd suggest any device with 6-8GB of RAM. -
Looking at the list of supported devices, most of them only have 4GB. I thought this is because UT doesn't need many resources, less than Android.
But what you imply would mean, that hardly any of these phones runs UT smoothly...?
Then I wonder why there have been hardly more than three devices with 6GB or more been ported...? Of which only one is not a community port.
And especially the recommended devices have mostly 4GB. Why would they do that knowing the devices are hardly suitable to run that OS?
That confuses me, since I thought I only have to wait a bit for the software to become better...Maybe I got some Volla Phones for sale now...
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@jojumaxx That's not what I mean. UT can be smooth even on a bq E5 with 1 GB of RAM but you can't expect to have multiple apps open without background apps getting killed. Browsers and webapps specially consume high memory.
And as for Waydroid, it's literally another OS so you can't expect for it to not bog down the system at least a bit. With just UT, 4GB of RAM is totally fine. So it's basically really depends on your usage. I'm a bit of a power user. I always have a browser with mutiple tabs and teleports open then a few apps more from time to time. I also use Waydroid when I'm out so for me, it's ideal to have 8GB of RAM. -
I am the complete opposite of @kugiigi . Not a power user and have no use for Waydroid. I notice no difference with multiple apps open on one of the lower RAM devices compared to higher RAM devices. I have to have an Android phone for work and various other things, so Waydroid doesn't suit me. I have to have an Apple phone for something else.
The thing with phones and tablets is that everyone uses them differently and want something different out of it. One size doesn't fit all.
I am a minimalist in that sense and love older hardware to not end up in landfill when with a bit of decent software you can squeeze more life out of it. Something the big corporations and their lies about being green, but forcing you to upgrade your hardware really irritates me. -
@kugiigi I'm sorry if I got you wrong. Maybe I also expressed myself not good in my original post.
I am with Ubuntu Touch for 10 years now. I started with a BQ, had Meizus, a Pinephone, one of each released Volla Phones, the BQ tablet and maybe more.
I am not a power user. Browser, Mail, maybe a chat or radio. But none of these devices were really fluent. That's ok, I love them, they do what they're supposed to and give me a feeling of an eco system together with my Ubuntu PC.Since some components of Morph are too old, which leads to being rejected by more and more websites, my idea was to use Fennec or so in the Waydroid environment.
Since not even the base systems run fluently, I was afraid of what happens, if Waydroid comes on top.
I don't really wanna use Android, but there are things not leaving you a choice because of which I still got Volla OS running on my X23.My question was therefore, if the devices are really struggling with basic UT or if that's maybe a software issue. I was not sure if the phones are too weak or if the software "is just like that" and would cause the same behaviour on a more powerful phone. Maybe interaction on a Fairphone 4 is as slow/laggy as on any other phone, due to the system... This is what I wanted to know.
@MrT10001 I am with you. My PCs are more than 10 years old, but with a little more RAM, an SSD and according software there's no need to even think about new ones. And I try to convince people to give it a try instead of buying another Windows PC.
But these non mainstream phones are my weak point...
I was hunting these (officially supported) phones hoping there's one which performs better, like an addiction. And I like them all, so I can't manage to sell them. I like the rugged properties of the Volla X and the bigger elegant Volla 22...
But at least my wife uses them, my kids do, so they have a purpose and we don't provide too much data to the big tech corps... -
@jojumaxx said in How important is strong hardware?:
But these non mainstream phones are my weak point...
They would be for me, but too expensive new and rare to find used. (I am talking about Volla, Fairphone and Pinephone).
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I have no experience with any of the Volla phones so not sure how smooth they are compared to the Fairphone 4 but of all my UT devices, it's definitely one of the smoothest and performant one. However, I'd say one of the main weaknesses of UT is the browser. It's outdated as we all know but in my observation, it also doesn't perform 7as well as you'd expect based on the system's overall performance. Not sure why though, honestly.
In any case, if you intend to use Waydroid extensively. Having more RAM is definitely a good thing to have. -
My experience with the Volla 22 is that it struggles with too many webapps and browsing. Things slow down and it becomes less responsive. Helps to close apps. It works well as a daily driver, but I do experience this quite often. I wonder if it was a purchase for the future and if it is only downhill from here. Of course the design philosophy for webpages is much to blame. I miss html4
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We will never criticize a smartphone for having a lot of RAM. This is still a strong point which surely allows to a certain extent to compensate for the shortcomings of UT, mainly in multi-tasking, which I sometimes notice with my Volla. And who can do more, a little less: perhaps future developments of UT will use more RAM than currently for optimized fluidity. Also remember that personal use of a smartphone may change over time and require more resources.
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@magnargj I see that it only has 4GB of RAM. Browsers and webapps can take a lot of memory. Not sure if this is a bug or if we can do something about this. It also depends on the site. Sites with infinite scrolling like Twitter can literally consume GBs of memory
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I'm taking this thread as an opportunity to rant about something that pisses me off.
Have your heard of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth's_law](Wirth's law)?Internet is broken due to web developers not being incentivized to do better websites (and probably not being able to properly code).
So the fact is that software is getting worse and worse using always more and more resources for no other reason that the resources exist.And big companies feed on that, they release new products every year to keep pushing bad updates so the new hardware will become a need hence creating demand.
I object that what we do is trying to push back and give some resources back to the user.
One struggle, we cannot change internet as we all agree here.
Browsers are using too much RAM just to display some graphics and texts (I'm OK for videos as buffering is important).And even the latest version of Firefox is not supported by some websites. So do not blame everything on poor Morph or Ubuntu touch.
The web developers are to blame because cheap labor, bad skills and capitalism.As individuals we have the freedom to push back and not use services that do not deliver what is rightfully ours to expect.
I do not read articles from websites forcing ads and I pay for services that I want.
I don't use Facebook, because none can (it's Meta that's using you) as well as many others.Sorry for this but we're a small community and we cannot fix the world's problem like that.
People here should know what to expect and choose according to their requirements.For me it's a no brainer, if I need waydroid, it's easy to close the browser.
And for the browser keeping a minimum of tabs open is also not so complicated.
I'll add also that I prefer to use a webapp made with webber for sites is visit frequently instead of opening tabs (thank you convergence for more privacy).Be aware with tabs everything is shared across all opened websites... if you ask me: it's baaaad
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@AppLee said in How important is strong hardware?:
And even the latest version of Firefox is not supported by some websites
For example ? I don't totally understand. Do you think it is Firefox that is poorly coded, the sites concerned? or the sites and Firefox?
with Firefox, I'm fiddling around to read https://lequipe.fr at the moment. -
@domubpkm said in How important is strong hardware?:
Do you think it is Firefox that is poorly coded, the sites concerned? or the sites and Firefox?
@AppLee is saying that the sites concerned are poorly written, because some of them don't even support a fully up to date Firefox.
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Wirth's Law explains a lot. A lot of software on devices and PC's seems more interested in tracking your habits to allow ads to be targetted at you. I have noticed this since the start of me using the web. I certainly see all the bloatware on all devices is wholly not neccessary and on PC's I would debloat a lot of this. On My last and still being used Android phone I removed a lot of the bloatware on that, but it still tracks me. On older Ubuntu installs I tended to remove FireFox and replace it with a lighter browser such as Midori (which has been hived out to some crapware producing organisation).
However, I cannot code and am not a developer, like most people have to live with a lot of this stuff and get on with it. I do take great delight at shouting "sex toys" at peoples phones to ensure they get the full experience of tailored adverts to what the phone is listening for (I obviously don't do it to strangers). This surprises a lot as they think the phone is not eavesdropping on them.Sorry, I digress........
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Hi @domubpkm exactly what Arubislander said.
The website is developed with chrome because it cost more money to have it compatible with Chrome, Safari AND Firefox.
So they basically decided to use Chrome because it's used by a majority of people.It's Internet Explorer vs Firefox all over again.
But Chrome (and
GoogleAlphabet) is also responsible.
Because like IE they created "features" that are intended towards easing the work of some developers hoping that website will design for their browser.
By doing so they also break compatibility and standards to bring something that most of the time is useless.But that's how you lock users down to your technology.
And notice that nowhere in the story the user comes into play ; we are just pawns used to bring more money to a table that should not exist.Google if they weren't ill intended should have contributed to Firefox instead of trying to steal the market.
But no, think no evil they said... -
@AppLee said in How important is strong hardware?:
And notice that nowhere in the story the user comes into play ;
But yes !! there is still a need for users or consumers to be able to mow them! 'Shrinrkflation' is an example outside of IT
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@domubpkm Of course but users usually work around things or comply. It's rare that people act and leave them dry
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I have a few defunct Apple products deemed useless due to outdated software. My Ipad 1 is a great jukebox and I can still go on the internet with it, and no I haven't been hacked!
(I hate Apple's fakery of charging $$$$ for proprietary rubbish that has limited lifespan, is difficult (very difficult) too repair and the green credentials they harp on about - Apple, I hate you).
