Potentially turning a negative of Google's tightening restrictions into a positave

Futura

I am not sure if this is the right place for this, and even then it comes from a high level of ignorance to software development on my part.

I am sure some of you folks have seen the news about Google's impending removal of the ability to side-load any applications starting September 2026 and rolling out through 2027, as well as requiring any app developers who wish to publish apps to android in any capacity to register with them and upload a government ID.

In a recent interview F-Droid has warned that it could effectively kill alternative app stores entirely. While no one can know the exact ramifications of something like this it's easy to imagine this will likely have a negative impact and possibly leave some developers of open source apps on a platform like fdroid without a platform at all.

I am sure that porting an android application to run on UT is not a simple switch that can be toggled.
However is there a guide, roadmap, or toolkit in any capacity to do so at this point?
If not it may be worth putting something together and possibly welcoming impacted developers to an open store with a community that I am sure would be happy to welcome and see them there.

t12392n

While I agree to 100% I believe there will be several major obstacles that needs to be faced by the FOSS community.

Unlike computers and many other appliances where FOSS has started to take market, smartphone has become an extension of you as a person. As in;

We are heavily dependant to major organisations to develop apps for Banking, Digital ID or even other services. Many of these organisation has incentive to keep going Google/Apple route for reasons. Worst would be if they start limiting where you can connect from.
Hardware which supports opensource alternative is starting to expand but is still in its infancy which makes it more sensitive for regulations and is tougher to get that competitive.
Seeing as US, UK, AU and even EU is starting to foster acts, regulations and laws to control both HW and software freedom. Referring to EUs laws of standard charge cable or EU's laws regarding to chat control.

Chat Control and Digital ID is one of the reasons why I am about moving to Ubuntu Tough, and for this reason I will continue to cheer, support and bet on these intiatives!

TL;DR
While the escalation of government control of our communications is increasing we are at a very sensitive stage still.

Futura

@t12392n
Less about the geopolitical aspect, FOSS phone OS state, and more of just offering some talented people who are likely already making FOSS applications a place to be welcomed and bring their talent and applications etc.

johndoe

@Futura said in Potentially turning a negative of Google's tightening restrictions into a positave:

I am sure that porting an android application to run on UT is not a simple switch that can be toggled.
However is there a guide, roadmap, or toolkit in any capacity to do so at this point?

There is general documentation for developing an application for Ubuntu Touch, but nothing specifically for "How to make your Android app a Ubuntu Touch app.".
This is probably already complicated to do, because there is not a 1 to 1 replacement for many Android frameworks. So most of the code will maybe need to be rewritten.

As far as I know most Android apps are written in Java, but there is not a Java template for the standard packaging format of Ubuntu Touch:
https://clickable-ut.dev/en/latest/app-templates.html#app-templates

On the upsite: When snap packages become a real alternative to click packages on Ubuntu Touch (currently they are a little bit clunky), it would maybe make it more interesting to port Java Android apps to Ubuntu Touch.
The snap packaging format would also allow the developer to easily port the app for desktop Ubuntu and Ubuntu Touch at the same time.

pparent

@t12392n said in Potentially turning a negative of Google's tightening restrictions into a positave:

smartphone has become an extension of you as a person

This sure sounds like a frightening statement. I'm glad I don't feel that way.

t12392n

@pparent said in Potentially turning a negative of Google's tightening restrictions into a positave:

@t12392n said in Potentially turning a negative of Google's tightening restrictions into a positave:

smartphone has become an extension of you as a person

This sure sounds like a frightening statement. I'm glad I don't feel that way.

You do not know the half of it.

In Sweden we are a very digital society and this we have BankID, which is an private organisation. The idea is that Banks validate your ID which then allows BankID to issue a certificate to a device (application) and allows you to Authenticate yourself digitally on the majority of the Swedish services.
Like ;

banking/insurance/loans
shopping
Car ownership
sites for private trading of physicals goods
groceries
parking
and much more.

While there competitors like FrejaEID its not mush against the dominator BankID. BankID Mobile (the most common form) is only available for Apple IOS and for Google Android officially. There used to be a Linux client but it get discontinued and there is a windows client available is for enterprise purposes and requires a physical card.

Being somewhat young in Sweden today you REQUIRE your phone this sole purpose, to house and App to be able to Authenticate.

gpatel-fr

@t12392n

thanks for the explanation.
I wonder how disabled people (the ones that may have trouble using a terminal as small as a phone) fares in this scheme.

Also, unfortunately for Linux devices such as Ubuntu Touch, betting all on a device that has a gigantic attack surface - the smartphone has typically 3 open connections (radio, wifi, bluetooth) and connects to typically one software store with many apps, with automatic update turned on for everything - pretty well ensures that only systems provided by big Daddy Google or big Daddy Apple will be considered secure enough for general use by a population not especially well versed in security. I am going to get a device that will get UT next week but I'm not keen on doing banking on it. Using old kernel and old binary drivers don't seem to be a good thing with so dangerously exposed devices.

Mario.CH

Hi

I keep reading the myth that nowadays you need a smartphone.

Let's be honest, if everyone stopped using these services and instead did everything at the counter or in the store, then neither the tech giants nor the authorities would have so much power.

Incidentally, the authorities seem to fear the people more than the tech giants, which is really worrying.

Greetings
Mario

Moem

@Mario.CH said in Potentially turning a negative of Google's tightening restrictions into a positave:

Let's be honest, if everyone stopped using these services and instead did everything at the counter or in the store, then neither the tech giants nor the authorities would have so much power.

How do you do your banking at the counter if your bank has no physical locations?

pparent

@t12392n

Well I'm very sorry that you seem doomed in sweeden.

Honestly in France you can still live without a smartphone.

I would say the main limitation is Whatsapp (and possibly Signal and Telegram) which is more and more used in social groups. You could still use it on a computer, but you would miss infos while you're on the go. Apart from groups usually people would accept to communicate with you in one-to-one by SMS if you prefer so.

The second limitation is whenever you buy a ticket (train, concert, event), then you get a PDF with a Qr-Code. If you don't have a smartphone to display the pdf you have to print it every time which is annoying.

Also nowadays you're kind of expected to be able to navigate fast to any physical address, and not having a GPS app could be problematic in some situations, especially if you are in a city that you don't know perfectly, and you would need to organize yourself in advance.

But apart for those 3 annoyances, it remains perfectly feasible to not have a smartphone (only a dumbphone), all vital services (like state services, shopping and banking) will offer you options.

Mario.CH

Hi @Moem,

Is that how it is in your country? Not even a post office bank?

So before the age of the internet, home computers, and smartphones,
there were (I think in every country) banks with counters, but people started to get lazy, going to the bank is like that, isn't it?
Here in Switzerland, you still have the option of going to the counter.

And thanks to our political system, we will also resist such changes.
We must not allow cash to be abolished, because when paper money was introduced, our ancestors did not abolish gold. Both existed side by side in order to stabilize the currency.

Greetings
Mario

gpatel-fr

@Mario.CH said in Potentially turning a negative of Google's tightening restrictions into a positave:

Here in Switzerland, you still have the option of going to the counter.

I seem to remember that the Swiss central bank had toyed with the idea of using free (not as in beer!) money.
Wait, it seems to have actually happened already:

https://news.itsfoss.com/gnu-taler-swiss-operations/

Possibly this kind of system could be used to minimize risks involved in using such a vulnerable device as a phone (while being also privacy friendly of course). Wish my country could be so forward thinking.

Mario.CH

hi @gpatel-fr,

My main concern is that we ordinary people should get more involved instead of just consuming.

Keyword:
Democracy => Get informed and use your own voice (not the opinion of a relative, colleague, acquaintance, and for heaven's sake, not your boss) and take to the streets if it is necessary.

Market economy => Get informed and act immediately (change providers, shops, telecom's, and of course banks and insurance companies, etc.).

Greetings
Mario

Moem

@Mario.CH said in Potentially turning a negative of Google's tightening restrictions into a positave:

Is that how it is in your country? Not even a post office bank?

Yes, it's true that some of our banks do not have physical locations at all anymore.