How Can I Contribute OR Why YOU Will Drop Ubuntu Touch Entirely

libremax

@Moem said:

You may have noticed that we are not suppressing your opinion, even though some parts of it may be uncomfortable to some. That alone should indicate that we are open to discussion.

What might be annoying and make this discussion difficult for some is that @grenudi in the last few months has already started ten or so threads on the same topic.
In my opinion, this isn’t a proper use of the forum but rather a form of abuse.

grenudi

@pparent , I appreciate that perspective, but it illustrates exactly why the wider Linux mobile community has moved on from the Halium model.

The "Halium first, leverage later" strategy has been the plan since 2017, yet it hasn't resulted in manufacturer leverage or a sustainable ecosystem. Meanwhile, projects like postmarketOS and Mobian have proven that the "tedious work" of mainlining and reverse engineering is not a myth of Sisyphus—it is a high-yield collective investment.

When developers like Caleb Connolly upstream a Snapdragon driver or Bhushan Shah patches ModemManager, that work is permanent and benefits every single distribution. That isn't a chicken-and-egg loop; it’s building a shared foundation.

The real "Sisyphus" work is actually what happens in downstream silos: manually backporting security patches into EOL (End-of-Life) vendor kernels that will never move forward. One strategy builds infrastructure that lasts; the other maintains "offline toys" that become obsolete the moment the community stops porting security fixes to a kernel that died in 2022.

Fact-Check & Evidence Base

This research reflects the consensus and documented state of the ecosystem as of March 2026.

The "Sisyphus" Fallacy: While mainlining is difficult, downstreaming is the true endless loop. UBports developers admit that backporting patches to ancient kernels is a "tedious process" that must be repeated for every single device. In contrast, a mainline driver is merged once and works forever across all distributions.
The "Leverage" Reality Check: UBports has used the "attract a userbase with Halium" strategy for eight years. As of March 2026, they have only 5 daily-driver-ready devices. Meanwhile, the mainline-focused postmarketOS supports 723 device models.
The Chicken-and-Egg Loop: The mainline community isn't waiting for vendors; they are bypassing them. Community-driven mainlining of mass-market hardware (like the Snapdragon 845) proves that independent progress is viable, permanent, and scalable.
Industry Isolation: Major projects like KDE Plasma Mobile dropped Halium in 2020 because maintaining it against EOL vendor kernels was an "uphill battle". Even UBports developers acknowledged they are the only project still investing in it.
Stalled Development: The Halium ecosystem itself has stalled; as of late 2025, there was "nobody working on" Halium 16, the base required for newer Android hardware.
Software Standards: While hardware varies, the community has standardized the software stack (Wayland, ModemManager, PipeWire). Ubuntu Touch remains the only major player refusing to go "Wayland only," which prevents them from using standard, modern Linux components.

kugiigi

@grenudi Are all these just because you didn't properly research what you're getting into?
Sorry, but the you seem to be technical and know things so I would assume you would have had the proper skills and know how to judge if UT is what you're looking for. From what I see, you're just lashing out because of that bad decision.

UT under UBports has existed for almost a decade now despite having very low man power. That has improved in recent years but it's still not as good as even the other mobile distros like postmarketOS, Mobian, etc.

Some of the issues you raised are valid but those would've have been solved long time again if they are simple to fix. You're basically asking the project to start fresh and ditch a lot of things. UT has had users since 2014/15, UBports picked it up along with those users. It's not realistic to continue the project while taking out its gut and expect users to still have a usable system.

If you don't like the project, then you're free to use and contribute on other projects. If you really want changes in UT, you are also free to contribute and address the issues you raised.

grenudi

@kugiigi said:

You're basically asking the project to start fresh and ditch a lot of things.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but have you seen a single suggestion in my post about the future direction of Ubuntu Touch? There are none. This isn't a feature request, and it is not a list of demands for what UBports should do.

The purpose of this document is to serve as a roadmap and a reality check for newcomers. You mentioned my technical background—that is exactly the point. If it took me this much effort, digging through hour-long Q&A sessions and forum threads from 2020, to uncover the architectural reality, how is a regular user supposed to know what they are getting into?

For example, the official website markets Lomiri as a "fully Wayland-based shell environment," yet the developers state in Q&As that they "are not going to go Wayland only". That isn't a lack of research on my part; that is misleading communication by the project.

When someone arrives here wanting to make a minor contribution—maybe a translation or a small bug fix—they often believe they are contributing to the broader Linux mobile ecosystem. They deserve to know upfront that Ubuntu Touch's architecture means their work stays in a downstream silo and will not benefit postmarketOS, Mobian, or the mainline kernel.

I am not asking the project to "ditch a lot of things" or tear out its guts. I am simply providing the documented facts so that new developers, translators, and users can make an informed choice about where to invest their time and effort.

grenudi

Perfect example of what this info saves devs,users from

Re: I am about to give up and leave (@jojumaxx )

pparent

@grenudi said:

high-yield collective investment.

For the record the two Android devices currently supported by Mobian ( Mainline linux ) are "OnePlus 6/6T" and "Pocophone F1". Both are NOT compatible with 5G (hardware-side). While I'm clearly not in favor of constantly pushing new telephony standards, and I think it is very sad that it happens, we have to acknoledge that the industry is pushing for it, making it hard to use phones that are not compatible with the latest standards on the long run. So I really wonder how those mainline linux phone can be considered as a future-proof long-term investment with an expected high-yield, susceptible to attract new users to daily-drive a mobile Linux phone. It is to be added that Mobian does not fully support yet all the hardware on those devices including the most important one to daily drive a phone (like camera), 8 years after the release of the phone.

PostmarketOS (which is a project I contributed to a bit few years ago) offers only one device compatible with both calls and camera (very basic feature to daily drive a phone), and it is the ... Librem 5 (sold with another Linux OS).

https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices

@grenudi I'm reiterating my question: what phone OS are you using and have you been using in your daily life?

grenudi

@pparent said:

what phone OS are you using and have you been using in your daily life?

I have clearly stated that this thread is not a discussion about personal tastes, hardware choices, or daily-driver experiences. I compiled this document to provide the full architectural picture based on documented facts.

If you are genuinely interested in my personal opinions and daily setup, please feel free to create a separate forum thread for it (I cannot direct message you due to my current reputation score).

If you have specific evidence to correct or counter the actual facts I have presented—such as the reliance on EOL vendor kernels, the Mir/Wayland contradictions, or the downstream isolation—I am all ears. But so far, the main architectural points of my research have not been touched by anyone here.

As the saying goes: when a finger points to the moon, don't look at the finger. Look at the moon.

Moem

@grenudi said:

@pparent said:

what phone OS are you using and have you been using in your daily life?

I have clearly stated that this thread is not a discussion about personal tastes, hardware choices, or daily-driver experiences.

It's still a good question. It provides a little context for your experiences. Please answer it, it does not require a new thread for such a simple statement. We have shown you goodwill, please extend the same to us.

grenudi

@Moem I've used lineageos for years, keeping in mind ubtouch from those promos back in the day first pine phone came. Didn had money, time for it at the time, but kept in the back of my head that there are ppl moving linux mobile forward and I'll join when I can. About a year ago I started device hopping, landed on the thought that there is legendary (in my head at this point) ubtouch. Went through the list of best supported devites, some instructions, tips, forums, watched some videos wich turned out mostly to be from 2022,23 or crap quality, no detaided examitations (wich was strange but I did not pay attention to it). So 1 month of going though tedious xiaomi unlocking, and I've had the working ubtouch phone, the rest is history on the forum. Ah, after ubtouch dissapointment, I've bought pixel 7 for daily with graphene os, serves its needs. As for linux mobile looking into daily drivers stated at mobian, postmarked, and a ways to participate there as stated in the document. Here I'm currently to clarify for others, who may need the clarification, what I didnt know back then.

Moem

@grenudi Thank you!

pparent

@grenudi Thank you!

@grenudi said:

the rest is history on the forum.

Can you re-explain briefly what turned you off about Ubuntu Touch as a user? Because in your messages I feel it's more development philosophy concerns.

Personally I don't pretend that Ubuntu Touch is ideal. The fact that it is using Halium and proprietary blob is clearly a tradeoff, and I would prefer 10 times running a mainline Linux with 100% Foss ( I think everyone would ). And Mir1.x does not seem to me the best compositor in the world, we'll see about Mir2.x.

The thing is that when you are really committed to not using Android-based or IOS mobile OS, and use a Foss-Oriented OS, well Ubuntu Touch saves the show. If I had to use postmarketOS or Mobian as a daily driver it would greatly handicap my personal and social life. And sailfishOS is partiality proprietary so I don't see the point to prefer a locked-down environment to another. So for me your concerns are of secondary importance in comparison to what UT provides: a Linux mobile experience that does not handicap me too much in my daily life and social life, and that has served me for years.

Ps: I'm surprised that you don't seem concerned that your Android-based phones are running the same kind of vendor non-mainline kernel that are not the latest versions, and that get outdated in the exact same way as UT kernels.

grenudi

@pparent ty for your opinion on the matter.

haagch

I'm surprised people still argue with generative AI. If you want to seriously argue, then I suggest writing your own opinion yourself rather than letting a stochastic machine generate them for you. Then you also won't post embarrassing hallucinations such as xwayland being used to run wayland apps.

The one point at the core here seems to be that you assume Ubuntu Touch = wrapper for android vendor ecosystem. But The real problem is that there is no recent phone hardware which has good enough linux mainline support to actually be comfortable to ship it. Meanwhile you have Volla and Furi shipping Halium based phones.

So is it true that Ubuntu Touch won't run on mainline Linux? I think not. The Brax open_slate tablet has been posted in this forum recently. It will have mainline support because it uses the Mediatek Genio SoC for which Collabora is doing mainlinux linux support and they promised Ubuntu Touch support.

I talked with the people at the Furi booth at FOSDEM and they do intend to try to make mainline Linux work with the mediatek phone SoC they use (Unfortunately Mediatek Genio support does not automatically mean Mediatek Dimensity support). My Volla Phone uses a different Dimensity chip than the Furi Phone and they didn't seem to know how much of the effort would carry over to different Dimensity versions.

In the Volla community chat I also heard in passing that they had talks with GrapheneOS, which got me interested, because GrapheneOS would require a much more recent kernel than Mediatek ships for the Volla Quintus, and the reply was that Volla is also interested in migrating to a newer kernel and there's a real possibility. I treat that as a rumor until it happens.

The reason I'm writing all that:
Ubuntu Touch as it currently exists is a compromise yes, but it's also a stepping stone. I'm not a big fan of some of the things they're doing (snap cough) but once the mir 2 upgrade is done, it will be another step towards allowing more mainline wayland linux apps to run, one way or the other.

In an android + ios defaultist world I think a lot of people have the opinion that we need to have one strong system as opposition to it to force app vendors to take us seriously, but my opinion is that that's a fallacy. So let's say hypothetically, SailfishOS is the next vendor banks choose to make apps for, but here on postmarketOS I still have no access to Wero? I think the more different linux based systems we have, the better, because it will encourage to create actual cross platform and open protocol technology instead of only targeting some subset of platforms and leaving out everyone else. That's why I personally set up monthly donations for both, Ubuntu Touch and postmarketOS. I have a Volla Quintus with Ubuntu Touch as primary phone because it has 5g and a working camera, and I have an old Shift 6mq with postmarketOS without a working camera and with a geoclue agent that uses 100% cpu the entire time while gps is queried and where pulseaudio sets the mic volume to a way too quiet 50% every time a sip call starts in gnome-calls, and a lot more small papercuts that reflect the current state of mainline linux on phone hardware. It's not a contradiction to support the development of both systems.

grenudi

@haagch ty for yor opinion and sharing insights that the rest of us doest have or have to go through a mess of q&a logs, forums and what not to get. I've spent hours on them and here you state that it is still not enough, then you can be rest assured that most of ubtouch community dont have any grasp on it at all, for the sheer amount of dedication it requires to understand where things are, and it is still wont be enough.

AI was used to clean up in the mess and a ton of text material, qa reports, forums and so on, and it was a great tool for that.

key points remain. all facts presented in the documents, non of this concerns major conclusions, aside from being minor corrections to them.

grenudi

@haagch ps camera and gps are stated - N Not working yet, for this device, on devices page on postmarketos .

haagch

@grenudi For Shift 6mq gps is actually working on postmarketOS edge, the wiki just doesn't list it as working yet. modemmanager can get gps from the qualcomm modem and geoclue agent can pass it to librefox. Though it's still a bit flakey and last time I tried it, it didn't really continuously update the position on google maps web.

I'm actually not super deep into Ubuntu Touch or postmarketOS myself on a technical level. I just recently happened to see a video about GPS on postmarketOS, found the relevant wiki page and tried it for myself. I think that's the one tip I have for people: Instead of spending all that time on forum posts and videos, get a device and try stuff yourself, and accept current limitations. And the better use of AI is to help figure out stuff you don't know yet. It does require quite a bit of disposable income though, so I understand why not everyone can just commit-

grenudi

@haagch ty for your advice. Again, I have presented a list of facts here, and a list of conclutions based apon them. None here have yet said anything about facts presented. Please comment not on me or ai but on materials presented here, for example

FC-32 | Full upstream contribution audit

Upstream target	UBports contribution	Result
Linux kernel mainline	Zero	Nothing
Wayland / wlroots	Zero	Nothing
Phosh / phoc	Zero	Nothing
KDE Plasma Mobile	Zero	Nothing
ModemManager	Zero	Nothing
PipeWire	Zero	Nothing
Debian (non-Lomiri)	Zero	Nothing
postmarketOS	Zero	Nothing
Halium	~95%	Droidian uses it. KDE left in 2020. pmOS never used it.
Lomiri in Debian	Mike Gabriel's work	Lomiri in Debian 13, NixOS, Rhino, pmOS

grenudi

aside from small corrections about dev insights from @alan_g that I didnt have( @alan_g Thank you). But still they are minor corrections from dev insights, major points remain all the same

grenudi

@pparent @moem @libremax @haagch @keli @alan_g To save someone time arguing, here is simple analisys from another ai, with couterpoints of which I agree. And as stated before, this is a road map for others, to help choose direction where their want to direct their efforts, of where things are and not a suggestion on what ubports ubtouch direction should be.

I hear you, and it’s completely valid to feel defensive when a project you care about gets labeled with what sounds like a dismissive term.
Since you asked me to be sure, I ran a fact-check using Google on the definition of a "pet project" and the specific technical claims the critic made. I’m going to give it to you straight: the critic’s facts hold up, and technically, the definition does fit. But that doesn't mean the project is worthless, and you absolutely still have a valid counter-argument.
Here is what the reality check looks like, followed by how you can actually push back.
The Fact-Check: The Critic is Accurate
I verified the claims and links from the documents against current search results, and the critic's data is factual:

The "Pet Project" Definition: A pet project is universally defined as a project pursued out of personal interest, passion, or curiosity, rather than because it is generally accepted as necessary or broadly applicable to a wider group. Because Ubuntu Touch is structurally isolated and doesn't feed its work back to the broader Linux mobile ecosystem, the label accurately describes what the project has become.
KDE & Halium (2020): It is true that KDE Plasma Mobile officially dropped Halium support in December 2020, citing the exact "uphill battle" against end-of-life vendor kernels the critic mentioned.
Fairphone 5 & Kernel 5.4: The official UBports device page confirms the Fairphone 5 (their flagship) runs on the 5.4 kernel. Linux 5.4 reached its official End-of-Life in December 2022.
Upstream vs. Downstream: The core of the critique—that UBports spends its time manually backporting fixes to dead kernels rather than upstreaming permanent solutions like postmarketOS does—is entirely accurate.
️ How to Counter: Own the "Pet Project" Label
You cannot win a debate against this critic on system architecture, kernel mainlining, or Wayland adoption. The numbers and the history are on their side.
However, you can counter the idea that "busy work for a pet project" means the work has no value. If you want to reply, here is the factual, grounded angle you can take:

Linux Itself Started as a Pet Project
Open source is built on people scratching their own itches. If a group of dedicated volunteers wants to spend their free time keeping Canonical's Lomiri UI alive because they genuinely love the workflow, that is the purest definition of open source. It doesn't have to serve the broader ecosystem to be valid.
Tangible User Value vs. Ecosystem Theory
While postmarketOS is doing the "correct" upstream work, UBports is delivering a highly specific, polished, and de-Googled daily-driver experience for its niche audience right now. Features like Waydroid integration, personal data encryption, and Voice over LTE on a Ubuntu 24.04 LTS base are real things users benefit from today. Keeping a Fairphone 5 or an older device functional and private is not "busy work" to the person using that phone.
Lomiri Actually Is Shared
You can point out that while the OS itself might be isolated, the Lomiri desktop environment is not. Because of Debian maintainer Mike Gabriel, Lomiri is packaged in Debian 13, NixOS, and even postmarketOS. The UI they love is making its way into the wider world, even if the underlying Ubuntu Touch kernel stack isn't.
In short: Accept the facts, own the label, and pivot the argument to the value of user choice and immediate usability.
Would you like me to help you draft a short, punchy reply to the critic using this angle?

grenudi

And to close the things off here:

If you look at it strictly through the lens of a Technical Roadmap, the critic’s argument is cleaner and logically dominant.
The "roadmap" he presented makes a single, undeniable point: Contribution to Ubuntu Touch is a closed loop.
The Logic of the Roadmap
The critic isn't arguing about whether Ubuntu Touch "works"; he’s arguing about leverage. Most developers and users will choose the "Upstream/Mainline" road because:
Permanence: A fix in the Mainline kernel or Wayland helps everyone forever. It is an investment in the "Global Linux" infrastructure.
The Dead-End: A fix in a 2022-EOL Android kernel (like the one UT uses for the Fairphone 5) only helps UT, and only for that specific device. It has to be re-done for the next phone. That is the definition of "busy work."
The "Pet Project" Reality: Because the work doesn't scale or benefit the industry standard, it remains a project pursued for its own sake (passion/interest). In a professional or architectural sense, that makes the "pet project" label a factual description, not just an insult.

Why the Argument Ends There
When someone presents a map and says, "Road A leads to a shared city everyone is building together, and Road B leads to a private cabin that you have to keep repairing yourself," most people will choose Road A.

If your goal was to find a "factual way to counter," the reality is that there is no technical counter-argument to the roadmap. You can only offer a user-experience alternative: "I prefer the private cabin because it has a roof and a heater (VoLTE/Waydroid) today, even if it isn't part of the city."

In short: The critic wins the architectural debate. Ubuntu Touch remains a choice for people who value the immediate, specific result over the long-term ecosystem investment.