PinePhone
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@Marathon2422 said in PinePhone:
PostmarketOS gets "screen of death" very fast. UBports is a little bit more usable but there is a bug with onscreen keyboard that does not appear after several screen locks. Will test it with different desktop oses (debian, kali etc) until situation will change.
Given that there will soon an influx of PinePhone users who want to run UT on their shiny new Linux phones, I hope that UBports will focus like a laser on PinePhone development for the next few months, even if that means other priorities are delayed for a short time. Otherwise, if disappointed with UT on first impression, the potential users may become forever lost to one of the competing alternatives.
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sigh the camera works, as does the modem. They just have to be enabled via cli. This is for a purpose ...
[edit] @Marathon2422 link to the thread please.
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@GizmoChicken said in PinePhone:
Given that there will soon an influx of PinePhone users who want to run UT on their shiny new Linux phones, I hope that UBports will focus like a laser on PinePhone development for the next few months, even if that means other priorities are delayed for a short time.
I tend to agree, but I'm not sure how many resources they can dedicate to porting on a specific device. The UBports team is small, and they still need to work on the core OS.
As a user very interested in the Pinephone, and not able to contribute in development, I wonder what we can do to help make sure UT is ported to the Pinephone in time for the planned March release? From what I could gather, UT may have a head start over postmarketOS. Would contributing financially help so that at least one dev can work on it full time?
I've also been wondering if I should go for a Brave Heart edition. I guess with enough pointers I'd be able to install UT on it, but would a simple user's feedback really help, for example with testing and bug reporting?
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@normandc Here's how to install care of Dalton if you need it
UniSuperBox 5 Nov 2019, 18:35
Download the rootfs image from
https://ci.ubports.com/job/rootfs/job/rootfs-pinephone/
1 Extract and write the image to an SD card
2 Plug SD card into phone
3 Boot phoneThat should do it.
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@Lakotaubp
Thanks, but it's a bit premature, isn't it? I don't have a Pinephone, and I specifically mentioned that I am unsure if ordering a Brave Heart would be useful as I'm only an end user. -
@normandc You can keep it safe and it shows how easy it is to get installed. Plus it might help others I suppose
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@Marathon2422
I saw a video on Mastodon of Marius making a call on a UT flashed pinephone recently...
https://soundcloud.com/user-274028038/first-pinephone-call -
@GizmoChicken In my opinion, it's fine giving time to PinePhone but there should be no rush. I think getting OTA-12 released is more important at the moment so we get the new Unity 8 and mir in stable. I believe UT is still ahead in terms of usability anyway.
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I think the commercial version of the pinephone (March 2020 if all goes well) and OTA-12 are linked. But indeed, in order of priority, OTA-12 is in my opinion the priority because the pinephone will not be released on the market without a stable and functional version of UT.
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If I'm not mistaken, PinePhone port started on Edge channel so the current dev branch.
So yes OTA-12 is linked to PinePhone by extension...@normandc I think a end-user can help test the dev channel than later the rc channel on the PinePhone. It will help the developers focus on the issues specific or not found on the PinePhone.
I'm a developer but not ready to jump on OS development, so I ordered the Pinephone to help testing and reporting bugs.
And if I feel I can dive into one or two issues, I will try to fix it.
That is probably a good 1st step. -
@kugiigi
it should not matter until after jan , by the time "Braveheart" gets played with for a week or 2, then ,when the ones come out with an OS in them . Marius will have it all fixed by then -
If I'm not mistaken, PinePhone port started on Edge channel so the current dev branch.
So yes OTA-12 is linked to PinePhone by extension...Yep, that's pretty much what I had in mind when I wrote that "I hope that UBports will focus like a laser on PinePhone development for the next few months."
That is, to the extent that developing OTA-12 and the PinePhone build are intertwined (such as new Mir and new Unity8), work on OTA-12 and the PinePhone build together. But regarding those aspects of OTA-12 that aren't intertwined with PinePhone development, perhaps those aspects could delayed for a later OTA, after the PinePhone build is ready.
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@GizmoChicken
In my opinion PinePhone requires OTA-12, so everything should be targeted for end of february.
So I suppose nothing will be left aside. I don't know if the order is important ... I think the deadline is the main focus and of course quality. -
@AppLee
i saw "Rob Braxman" live on youtube he talked about the pine phone and said to look on the bright side , if it doesnt work , youve got a raspberry computer with a screen on and .... or words to that effect.
(he has one on order ) he is a cyber security guy -
In my opinion PinePhone requires OTA-12
I think you are correct that the PinePhone requires much of OTA-12, including new Mir and new Unity8. And I certainly don't want any delay in those aspects of OTA-12. But to the extent that OTA-12 includes fixes that are specific to other platforms, if those fixes aren't already nearly complete, unless they are showstoppers, perhaps those fixes could be postponed for a later OTA.
Also, although OTA-12 will bring new Mir and new Unity8, my understanding is that it won't include a full transition to Wayland.
If the transition to Wayland can be done more efficiently on the PinePhone compared to other platforms, I suggest transitioning to full Wayland on the PinePhone first, and then later transitioning to full Wayland on older platforms. Same with systemd, which will be needed for rebasing from 16.04 to 20.04.
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Just to bear in mind, a transition to systemd will render all old devices unusable (kernel < 3.10). I am not sure we want to really go this way soon, and not rather stick with upstart. We dont need system atm in order to run a full working phone.
My languages: 🇦🇹 🇩🇪 🇬🇧 🇺🇸
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I am not sure we want to really [move to systemd] soon, and not rather stick with upstart. We dont need system atm in order to run a full working phone.
I'm not advocating for moving to systemd merely for the sake of moving to systemd. Rather, I'm advocating for moving to systemd because rebasing from 16.04 to 20.04 requires moving to systemd. (If 20.04 didn't require a move to systemd, I'd say stick with upstart for as long as you like.)
Also, just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that you should drop everything else and start migrating to systemd immediately. Certainly, transitioning to new Mir, transitioning to new Unity8, and transitioning to full Wayland, all should come first. But you need to start planning for the move to systemd soon, so that you can rebase to 20.04 (at least for the PinePhone) sometime early in 2020, hopefully by April or May.
transition to systemd will render all old devices unusable (kernel < 3.10)
Understood. And that's a big part of why I feel that this sort of work (preparing for 20.04) should be started first (and hopefully soon) for the PinePhone, and then later, where possible, applied to builds for older platforms. That is, because a transition to systemd (and rebasing on 20.04) could be done more efficiently on the PinePhone compared to other platforms, start with the PinePhone.
Although Ubuntu 16.04 may technically have a year of support left, at nearly four years old, 16.04 is showing its age. You skipped 18.04. Those buying a shiny new PinePhone will want a shiny new release (or at least not an ancient release) on it. (And you won't need to backport so much to a newer release.) Given that moving to 20.04 (including the requisite step of moving from upstart to systemd) will take a fair bit of work and time, better to start sooner than later.
If you're going to let the limitations of your old hardware restrict the pace of PinePhone development, you'll get left behind.
As I wrote before, if disappointed with UT on first impression, potential users on the PinePhone may become forever lost to one of the competing alternatives, or perhaps forgo the PinePhone altogether.
So, I'll repeat what I originally posted, but with one small edit: I hope that, once OTA-12 has been released, UBports will focus like a laser on PinePhone development for the next few months, even if that means other priorities are delayed for a short time.
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@Flohack Indeed, I think that it is still a little early to "sacrifice" all the precursor phones that support UT well at the cost of evolution in all directions !!
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@Flohack
Sadly some data gaps in this table:
http://docs.halium.org/en/latest/supplementary/devices/index.html
But it doesn't look too bad for Kernel 3.10+ support in my eyes.On the end UT doesn't seem to have the stated goal of Postmarket OS to maintain 10 year old devices.
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Indeed, I think that it is still a little early to "sacrifice" all the precursor phones that support UT well at the cost of evolution in all directions !!
Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that any phones be sacrificed. To the contrary, I hope that all currently supported phones (even those with kernel < 3.10) receive the enhancements currently slated for OTA-12, including new Mir and new Unity8.
However, we need to acknowledge that 16.04 is nearing EOL, and that UBports will, inevitably, need to rebase to something newer, probably Ubuntu 20.04. And, because rebasing to 20.04 necessitates transitioning to systemd, at least some old devices won't support the upgrade, whenever that happens.
What should happen to those old devices that can't support Ubuntu 20.04 after the inevitable rebasing? I don't know. Perhaps that should be discussed in another thread.
But regarding newer devices, we've been whining for years about the lack of phones that can run mainline Linux. Now we've got one: the PinePhone, which is the topic of this thread. But without a modern and polished OS to install on it, there will be no demand for the PinePhone, and production will likely end. I don't want that to happen.
UBports will only have one chance to make a first impression with potential users of the PinePhone. If UBports makes a bad first impression on the PinePhone, UBports (and the PinePhone) will have missed a huge opportunity. Again, I don't want that to happen.
While I feel that UBports should aim to upgrade all newer phones to Ubuntu 20.04 to as soon as feasible, I'm not proposing that here.
With regard to the PinePhone, I propose that UBports should release, no later than May of 2020, a UT build for the PinePhone that runs upstream Mir 1.6+ using full Wayland on an Ubuntu 20.04 base.
