Convenient VPN App

malditobastardo · 13 Jun 2020, 12:35

I would say, better to work on the system VPN plugin

Thanks for the initiative @marc_aurel . This community needs more people like you.
I have to agree with Joan, It will be much more rich and beneficial to the community if the VPN -plugin- that is already implemented in the system is improved. Because it's already working and very well. Maybe a simplified option would be more desirable rather than "reinventing the wheel" again (like it ALWAYS happen with the GNU/Linux community).
This is just my opinion.
Keep up the good work

marc_aurel · 15 Jun 2020, 12:11

@malditobastardo I agree. Thanks. Currently it's not possible just to select a script, isn't it? So we are looking for a convenient solution.

One challenge is left: changing VPN servers and changing the location or having a kill switch. That could be a reason for a VPN app.

PhoenixLandPirat · 15 Jun 2020, 13:19

Would it not be possible to have things in the store, which basically just add a service to the vpn settings and wifi indicators?

So lets say, you go into the account settings, you see options for Evernote, Nextcloud, CalDev, owncloud and google, you go to the openstore, and theres a PIA account "app" you install it, and no new app is created, you go to VPN's nothings new, you go to account settings, and then in Add Accounts, PIA is there.

You login to your PIA account from system settings, wait for it to add all its networks, then you pull down the indicator menu and all the possible vpn connections are there in the indicator menu.

The indicator menu might have to have a bit of a redesign, or the way its implemented might need to change a bit, because PIA has a lot of different places you can use, and to scroll down to a specific one each time would be a pain, but I was just thinking, that might be a good way to improve the current VPN situation, rather than ending up with different apps for all the different VPN providers.

AppLee · 15 Jun 2020, 13:45

@PhoenixLandPirat
This looks like a dirty hack IMHO.

It means an app installed from the store might be able to overwrite the system to replace the current VPN settings.
This looks a lot like a security issue: an invisible app modifying the rootf.

I agree with @CiberSheep it's better to improve the system settings.

marc_aurel · 15 Jun 2020, 15:22

I have doubts, that the system settings could fulfill the requirements for VPN.

Dynamic server list
Country selection
Kill switch
App specific VPN settings

VPN apps needn't be a hack. It’s a standard for Android, iOS, iPadOS or macOS. So UT could learn from this operation systems.

For sure a VPN app usually asks to related permissions. Afterwards the VPN would occur in the network settings.

Anyway, the improved system VPN settings could be a short term solution like in Sailfish OS. Is someone interested to work on it? Or does someone know anyone else?

Does someone know, wether it’s technically possible to develop a VPN app for UT and publish it n the store? We would like to promote it with our partner.

PhoenixLandPirat · 15 Jun 2020, 15:41

@AppLee the “app” shouldn't have that kinda power, ideally the app would just point the system settings direction.

idk how it would look in code but something like

name: PIA
acount type: vpn
VPN list: pia.com/VPN_list
authenticaion type: username + password

then system settings/VPN thing should search for the lists and apply all the needed settings, obviously it should point at more things the more complex it is, and have true false statements.

but the settings should be asking what specific questions to apply the VPN, and applying them through the VPN itself, rather than the VPN “app” messing about in your files.

the reason I suggest it be an “app” rather than added to system settings by default, is because no one wants to scroll through a list of 20+ VPN solutions to add there nextcloud instance for the calendar sync.

its also more use friendly than looking through the websites to try and find the right scripts or to try and find out how to set them up correctly.

PhoenixLandPirat · 15 Jun 2020, 15:50

@marc_aurel theres a VPN editor app in the store, so it should be possible to make an application that sets up something in in thebVPN section of system settings.

I don't know how that works, but Id assume you could make a convenient app with that, if you can make add all them extra features you wish to using that system, I don't know.

Lakotaubp · 15 Jun 2020, 16:27

@PhoenixLandPirat That app is ok but still a bit of a faff. You need to download the configuration file use a text editor to create two files upload those and so on.
What would be ideal would be a vpn set up from file similar to desktop. Just download file, import and add passwords. Sounds sooo easy when you type it out

theare27 · 15 Jun 2020, 17:02

Agree with the need for an indicator too
When the connection drops, there is an on screen notification, but it doesn't persist in the notification tray so it's easy to miss

Being unaware your vpn connection has dropped could be potentially dangerous to some users

Also, auto reconnect would be a good feature to have (e.g. when moving between access points)

PhoenixLandPirat · 15 Jun 2020, 17:07

@theare27 the VPN indicator menu is the same as networks, it just needs to have the VPN icon show up in the menu when active, this has been shown in design documents, but I don't think its ever worked in code, there are bug reports about that though!

theare27 · 15 Jun 2020, 18:32

@PhoenixLandPirat I'm talking about an indication on the bar at the top of the screen, either next to the wifi icon or incorporated into it somehow

Android has the key icon. On UT you have to go digging through the dropdowns to see if it's connected or not.

Yeah I have commented on some of the open bugs, just saw this thread & thought worth raising here too

dobey · 15 Jun 2020, 18:59

If you want to make VPN connection easier, then the first thing to do would be to get .ovpn file import support working in System Settings VPN config, so that one can simply import the necessary settings.

Concentrating on partnership marketing will not bring a better user experience to VPN setup.

marc_aurel · 16 Jun 2020, 15:24

Sailfish OS offers the approach with a VPN script. The disadvantage is, that it doesn't cover the requirement to change the server or - as mentioned in the discussion - a kill switch. A kill switch might be implemented by the system itself.

One more thing. We should be aware, that many consumers doesn't know anything about openVPN scripts or similar technology, but they are able to install the app of the VPN provider, they have chosen from an app store.

Companies would need an MDM solution for UT. But this is another topic.

pixelated · 16 Jun 2020, 17:16

getting ovpn files to import would be massive, that is by far the most painful bit atm lol i could live without an app, if i could quickly import the 200 odd connections i use easily

malditobastardo · 16 Jun 2020, 17:52

@dobey exactly

arubislander · 16 Jun 2020, 18:46

There is something I think I am not understanding here.

I understand that Volla has partnered with hide.me to offer VPN services.
I have looked on their site and they offer a download after payment. If it is an app or simply an .ovpn file I do not know.

But if it is an app, I assume they could make one for UTouch too, no?

If it is an .ovpn file, I have seen on their site they have step by step instructions and video tutorials to get their service configured on different platforms. In that case it would be a huge step in the right direction to, as @dobey and others have mentioned, implement .ovpn file support in the VPN settings plugin.

Or am I missing something obvious?

marc_aurel · 16 Jun 2020, 19:44

@arubislander Yes hide.me offers a script for OpenVPN. This works fine for experienced users. However this script doesn't cover the following requirements:

Considering changing servers
Optimizing bandwidth by choosing the currently fastest server for a location
Switching countries
Supporting kill switch
Supporting newer protocol WireGuard
Convenient installation for consumers

UT has the potential to become an alternative to Apple and Google for consumers. Therefore I'm looking for a convenient and best solution.

If someone is interested to work on a convenient solution, let me know. We can offer a Volla Phone as a Thank you.

dobey · 16 Jun 2020, 22:03

@marc_aurel said in Convenient VPN App:

Supporting kill switch

You keep saying kill switch but it's not at all clear what you mean by that. The indicator has a toggle to turn VPN on and off already.

@marc_aurel said in Convenient VPN App:

Supporting newer protocol WireGuard

This is not currently supported in UT at all, so perhaps you could start with getting the basic support of that into a PR, as well.

@marc_aurel said in Convenient VPN App:

Convenient installation for consumers

If hide.me provides an OVPN file, how would simply loading this into the System Settings page, not be convenient? Marketing != convenience.

Keneda · 17 Jun 2020, 03:56

@dobey
Kill switch, in my knowledge of VPN, is the ability for a VPN solution to prevent apps from using "normal" network when encrypted link fails between device and VPN server.

This, is in order to prevent user from sending datas over non secured network if anything goes wrong in VPN connection, it's a privacy safeguard.

It's an automated task.

In VPN settings, that would be an option like "turn off data if VPN connection fails".

When kill switch is active, only VPN software is allowed to send data to its server in order to try reconnect VPN.

Some kill switch solutions offer a whitelist for allowing user chosen apps to connect outside VPN protocole when kill switch is active.

dobey · 17 Jun 2020, 13:50

@Keneda OK. This already exists in NetworkManager sort of, but there is no UI for it on UT I guess. That is apparently another specific thing that Volla could work on and help improve VPN for everyone.