Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years
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@keneda Maintaining an efficient email client is practically a full-time job. Mission almost impossible for volunteering.
What seems more likely is to make the browser stronger and quickly fix its few major issues (DNS leaks and WebRTC leaks).
And it is absolutely necessary that Webber continues to operate under focal...
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@ktatar156 said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
@kristatos Just because I would like to have ANY working cloud backup of my data (photos, files, contacts).
The ideal solution would be that Ubuntu Community will set-up their own paid cloud (aka Ubuntu One) that could sync data.There is nothing stopping you from setting up your own cloud server.
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@ktatar156 said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
In my opinion, there should be put more effort over:
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2. Firefox - as mentioned before, in my opinion (from the user perspective) it could be better way to port it (maybe from Firefox android app?), instead of maintaining additional app. I'm aware of that, from the developer perspective, it is a completely different matter.The only way this would be significantly better than the present situation is if Mozilla themselves would officially support UT. Otherwise the burden of maintainance and catching up would be on some community member and we would still be having complaints that the browser does not support the latest features. Adapting Firefox to integrate with UT features such as Content Hub and Media Hub and also getting it to play nice with our display server requires work and maintainance, especially if upstream would not want to carry the needed patches.
Morph is based on QtWebEngine, which is a stripped down Chromium and is maintained by QT, and integrates better with the rest of the platform out of the box.
Having said all of that, anyone, and I mean absolutely anyone is free to jump in and put in the work needed to get Firefox to integrate with UT. It might be time that all the members who want to see this happen, get together, start a fundraiser and hire a developer, or something instead of repeatedly expressing this desire, or worse, saying this should be done instead of something else. Those who do not code, do not get to dictate what those who do code will spend their time on. You want something done, organise to get it done. That is how open source works.- Working sync for most popular services like Google or iCloud (contacts, calendar, mail, photos and file sharing/drive) - most of people would like to have additional backup in these, and on the top of that, have an opportunity to migrate data easily and sync between devices.
Yes, and when these proprietary systems change access to their services locking us out, or at least making it necessary for us to play catch up, we will be right back where we are at the moment.
Better would be to use a solution which is opensource friendly such as NextCloud or such. There are community members exploring such options.
I'm familiar with open source movement and volunteering (also in 'real' life) - I'm the last person that could demand anything - because, among others, I understand the idea that stands behind all of that. I'm only showing my observations, perspective and presenting my opinion over these topics - not to complaint, but to make UT better and more attractive for users.
Your desire to help the project is noted. But the way you are approaching the subject is not the best way to go about it.
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Hi @zubozrout and @ktatar156,
Despite all the arguments that your and also the above posts contain, which for me contain nothing but conveniences, it in no way gives you permission to express yourself so condescendingly about the work of such a small group of people who do great things here.
And please remember that you are not the only ones, it happens every 3 to 7 weeks that we have to endure such complaints here.Because for the amenities you are looking for, there is also eOS and others.
Sorry, but I had to give myself breathing room, because my device is first and foremost; simply a phone, over which I am the <master/woman)>. And for that I love the makers and helpers of Ubports with their OS Ubuntu Touch.
With love Mario
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@mario-ch hmm, did I do any of the things you accuse me of? I am quite fond of UT and I am more than aware of how complex a development of it is. What I am not aware of is that I would ever say anything that would be "condescending" towards the whole project or the people here.
So I wonder how you got to that judgment
Perhaps it was me saying I am glad we now have Waydroid which allowed me to continue using UT in nowadays world? But that is more of a "phew, I am happy I can stay with UT and spin up Android when needed even if I am traveling etc..."
I have absolutely nothing to criticise. It is not my place (you are correct about that, but I don't think I do that) plus UT is well usable for my case.
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@arubislander
Thanks for your comments.
I have an idea (that could also maybe support UT developers). Maybe there is a possibility to set-up some paid service related to could service? What I mean that UBports Foundation could be a service provider for nextcloud/owncloud? I'd love to subscribe and pay monthly fee for some place in the could? Margin archived on such service could be utilized to support UT development?
Of course, before starting such project, we should estimate how much people could probably buy such service from UBports Foundation and whether it will be economically viable. -
@arubislander Would it be easier to use the Brave Browser? I find it more stable than Firefox on desktop Ubuntu.
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@ktatar156 The Foundations bylaws make it impossible for it to be a service provider in such a way as you suggest. But nothing is stopping members of the community from banding together to create an entity that provides such a sevice. Though this would be a very tricky endeavor as it would be storing / handling data from people accross the globe, making it subject to a variety of privacy and data protection legislations.
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@wizardi3 Integrating Brave into the OS environment would face many of the same challenges as integrating Firefox would, I imagine.
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@arubislander
Plus Brave is chromium based, so no big difference with Morph here. -
@keneda The main issues are probably not which browser engine is used. But have more to do with other functionality the browsers bring that users value, such as extensions and syncing across devices.
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Hi, I'm a silent reader, but this could help:
@zubozrout said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
And I don't want to rely on my own server as I would surely lose all data plus I would have to take care of it.
One user-friendly option to do this without much coding knowledge is "syncloud[dot]org" that I'm using myself in combination with my UT volla as daily driver.
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@arubislander You're right, I didn't think in that way... So maybe, we should try to convince some established provider to prepare 'special' offer for UT users and share some part of revenue with Uports Foundation. So it'll take major part of risk related, but on the other hand, get some additional clients and profit.
I'll try to handle with this topic (but I don't have any experience and connections in this area); I suppose, I should start with some questionnaire in our community to get some predictions, how much people would be interested in such service. Do you guys know there I should start? This forum or some other places (e.g. telegram?)?
Secondly, I'll try to get connections with some major opensource cloud providers. Or maybe, someone already know some people in this business? -
@ktatar156 Here's a link to test browser security from the Electronic Frontier Foundation
https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
There is a reason for not having extensions.
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Hi @zubozrout ,
So, I replied to your post (with inclusion of the title post by Ktatar156:
@ktatar156 said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
I decided to set up my phone as primary (and configure must-have features in my opinion) - and then, problems starts:
There is no out-of-box mail app that could work with Gmail with push notification;
Importing Google Contacts also not working.So these two are a regression in comparison to few years ago usage while I had MX4.
Lack of native open-source Firefox (used in most linux distros) (fragmentation of software continues....) - in my opinion, the resources should be utilized to port Firefox on UT instead of creating new Web-browser.
Plenty of apps in Store are out-dated or not working properly anymore (or are only simply web bookmarks)
Support for Android apps still require a lot of work (e.g. GPS is not working).Above list is based on my personal needs and unfortunately, excepts open source and privacy aspects of using UT, I don't see any advantages for myself from using this phone
).
You have replied to the post of Kristatos following:
@zubozrout said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
Sadly some governments/cities/banks basically force you to use their Android or iOS apps or rely on WhatsApp if you want to talk to them. We do not live in an ideal world and I've been very lucky Waydroid got to UT when it got as if I didn't have that choice I would have to switch to Android just because of that. And surely I would stop using UT if I only had a phone with it laying all the time somewhere home.
Now I suspect that Kritatos himself knows that many participants, in the possibilities (apps) of the smartphone, make it very easy for themselves (governments,banks,ecetera). In my opinion, he finds that many people no longer want to use Android/iOS devices, but are actually not willing to give up what they are now used to.
From my point of view, Ubports is not obligated to provide the desired apps, or do you think Google/Apple created the mentioned apps for free for the organizations mentioned in your post?
As I wrote in my post, I have nothing against you, it was just the same old story in the reviews.
I'll try again: it's up to companies, organizations and especially governments to make their apps available for all operating systems, at least that would only be fair if they reach a certain size or turnover.That's just how I see it.
With kind regards Mario
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@mario-ch I agree with you. Which is why I said "we do not live in an ideal world". If I've stayed in my home country I would likely still be fine avoiding Android. It wasn't the case. But I can be happy about the fact Waydroid is available, I can run it whenever I need it, and I can still enjoy UT full-time. Considering the circumstances it is a win win scenario.
"Ubports is not obligated to provide the desired apps" - of course. They are actually not obligated to provide anything. No one is unless there is some contract or whatever in place. But I think having an option of Waydroid at least the way it is now is basically a must have. Unless you really want to say "so long and thanks for all the fish" to users who can't physically live in their country without certain apps. Saying it is not UBports fault is true, but since that's the case why avoiding a workaround like that if nothing else seems feasible?
Anyway, I am on UT since the release of MX4 with UT in 2015 and I don't plan to go anywhere else. With 20.04 around once dust settles down a bit things should become way more interesting again and I am really looking forward to that wishing UBports the best. And I am grateful to everyone who makes this possible. Even if I am not as enthusiastic about things as I used to be - must be me getting older and the amount of worries getting higher :).
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I have held off on this thread, but I thought I would put my bit in now!
Bought 2 x BQ Aquaris e4.5 when Canonical and BQ put them on the market that day. One was mine and the other was mine too, but I handed it out for people to play with.
As a phone, text, MMS, camera and web browsing, most used and thought it was adequate. For social media, it was no and a resounding no at that.
Ok so come to 2022/2023. Canonical has devolved Ubuntu Touch to the community when the phones and tablets did not take off as planned - you have to try these things! So now Ubuntu Touch is run as a charitable foundation (UBports) by volunteers. There is some commercial working from what I can see, but most is run by enthusiasts and volunteers. This means your data is not going to be scraped and sold to the online bidders so you can get spammed with ads (thanks Amazon, Google, Apple, Xiaomi......). It also means that some things work, some things don't and it is not for everyone as they want a device that just well works for what they they want.
Some things won't work as UT is open source, i.e. Internet banking apps (encryption), Social Media, such as SnapChat and Whatsapp and so on. (BTW this is my opinion from what I have observed and read).The Browser issues has been strongly covered with reasons why Morph is used and not Chromium or Firefox, but I find Morph overall very usable and suitable for me.
The Apps issues has also been extensively covered and again a lot are coded by volunteers and enthusiasts who spend their own free time and money running and maintaining them (kudos given for that). If you want an app that is not in the store, create it yourself, or use the browser, or heaven forbid, use your Android or Apple phone. It is that simple. What I cannot use on UT, I will use on my computers, or Android phone (my Iphone is out of Action, but was needed for one app).
I don't use Waydroid as I don't see the point personally (using UT is to avoid some Android apps), as I said if I need to use an app that is not in the store, I will use it on another device. But for some Waydroid is convergence with Android apps and I see why people are enthusiastic about it and again Kudos to the people setting it up and running with it.
Options, options and options, there are so many to do what you want. There is always a way and work around.
Thank you all for your hard work on UT and also the criticism as criticism makes things better in most cases.
Kind regards to all,
Mr T10001
(I pity the fool). -
@ktatar156 said in Few thoughts regarding coming back after several years:
I've been using linux on a desktop computer for 20 years, but unfortunately on phones we didn't make any spectacular success.
Ironically, Linux is also the most widely used smartphone OS in the world.
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Hi @dobey ,
How true - how true.
And if one refers to the original UNIX, - oh no, it is always such a thing, how far one looks back into history, because in the end we end up with electricity or not electricity, so 1 and 0.But, the important thing in this comparison is, the joint work of software engineering and hardware engineering is crucial to great success.
And when enough money flows to the creators, much is truly possible.
Greetings Mario
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@dobey
More likely "kernel" not "os" no ?
I mean, android/linux is far from being gnu/linux no ?2015-2023 : Meizu MX4 now in legacy drawer by lack of pristine battery š«
2023-***** : Nexus 5 (16.04 OTA 25) for daily use, slowly dying š¤
2024-***** : Fairphone 5 waiting UT for freedom š
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