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Hi,
Just wanted to mention that I contacted the in-development French identity mobile app, to ask them for interoperability, and remind them their duty to make sure public service is available for everybody, and that their role was not to enforce the choice of mobile OS of their citizens.
https://france-identite.gouv.fr/
Surprisingly I got a pretty open and positive reply, apologizing that their app was not compatible with my OS (Ubuntu Touch), and saying they shared the goal of interoperability, and would study that with the development team what was possible. I did not expect such a positive answer, although I don't know if anything concrete will get out of this.
As a side note I wonder why for this kind of app, with a real need of interoperability, they don't use more Qt, because from what I understand Qt allows to develop apps for Android, iOS, Windows, Mac, Linux desktop, Linux mobile (Ubuntu Touch, Sailfishos, Mobian, postMarketOs, pureOs, ect...), all at once, with only few custom things to go for each platform. Any thoughts on that?
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Maybe their goal is only to target phones and desktop was a non-goal for the people giving orders (that's the one who are supposed to represent citizens eh), and at a first approximation on phones there are only 2 operating systems, and there are several cross-platforms framework targeting Android and IOS that may be more efficient - or known - for this limited target.
Also behind the facade of openness, there are still quite a lot of love of secret in the French administration. Having a GPL licensed framework like QT is a negative point in this perspective since there is some additional weight to have to share the source. I don't have proof of this speculation and possibly the deciding persons don't even know what is a software license.
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Now Qt is now also LGPL that allows to link proprietary software against it.
Also apparently the application will be soon published as opensource code:
https://france-identite.gouv.fr/securite-application/I share your wariness, but let's not be too pessimistic either and withdraw into ourselves which would be a mistake.
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@pparent Oh very interesting. I'm not that optimist with the Spanish Government.
They call it MiDNI (that I misread in my head XD).
Interoperability laws are from the EU, right?
(I'm not that optimist: We have not achieve interoperability between instant message app yet... and DNIe2.0 and DNIe3.0 were a disaster)Anyhow, I'm glad for you (and a bit jealous ^_^⁾
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C CiberSheep moved this topic from General on
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The UK Government are pushing for the same thing, something that no UK Voter wants. Digital ID is not wanted in the UK as we have enough forms of ID to use and having a single ID is just open to abuse through hacking and other fraud. Everyone also knows it will only be open to Android and iOS (see certain authenticators and banking apps to start off with) and everyone knows our UK Government will do it in the cheapest and least secure way possible. Added to that it is also a way to monitor the population through the use of it.
@gpatel-fr said in French ID app interoperability.:
Also behind the facade of openness, there are still quite a lot of love of secret in the French administration.
I love that line, that is well worth quoting.
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if you want the origin, here are the facts that I was referring to:
also people have tried to get the algo for social security to deny some rights, and it was a lot harder and was only revealed through the ineptitude of the administration, after the legal ruling the administration complied while hiding all of the juicy details like the CIA is prone to do, however the masking was amateurish and could be undone:
https://git.laquadrature.net/la-quadrature-du-net/algo-et-controle/assurance-maladie
The principle are high, the application is highly variable.
The recent decision about digital control is concerning troubling for a UT user: I have a phone produced in the netherlands, against the directive, and with the EU rules the French gov can't stop it; the software comes from a foundation from Germany, against the directive so the French gov can't stop it. However if I own a phone with communication software that can't be controlled, it will be against French law; that leaves only me as a target. Maybe I'll get to know Pierre Parent in a jail cell (overpopulation is frequent in French jails). Better to not install Signal UT it could get me a reduced sentence
If you think that's all a joke and it will never happen, read on what the hoopla that happened about the guys doing high security phones and who preferred to ditch their servers from OVH. -
@gpatel-fr said in French ID app interoperability.:
The recent decision about digital control is concerning troubling for a UT user
What are you talking about precisely?
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P pparent referenced this topic on
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@pparent said in French ID app interoperability.:
What are you talking about precisely?
Oh sorry, I had other pressing matters to attend and missed your reply.
I was talking about the chat control that the French gov (among a majority of European countries) is supporting. I don't know where it is currently, there is still work to do for the paranoid mad guys. What is concerning is that it is supposed to be enforced by having the 'secure' OS controlling the applications at the behest of the err, benevolent, err, leaders.
About the French ID app: I bought an Android phone just to use it, and it refused flatly to work. No explication, nothing, just that it was not compatible - the official say is that any Android phone running Android 11 would work, but reading the Google store comments says otherwise: other people have had problems too, and no information on the why is provided.
I'd say that the devs have read the secure phone KoolAid (IMO this is all a bunch of utter bullshit, nothing will secure correctly a device as complicated and as connected like a mobile phone for a wide public, there are constraints of cost that will never be manageable - all too many users are using outdated Android versions)
A wise government (LOL ?) would have bet on dedicated hardware keys for high security stuff, ensuring that cost are kept low with open standards and competition protection, and basic security for the rest.
Also, the Google Playstore commenters are pretty scathing about the reliability. This looks as basically something half working at best.
OTOH I have tried the LaPoste digital ID, it is very quirky, but at least it works on the low cost Android phone. It can be used - for the moment - for the 'FranceConnect+' only services but I wonder if it will last (cue the secure phone Kool-aid). It does not work on UT - the app is checking that it is not installed from the Google store.
Maybe if the Google store could run on Waydroid ? Not sure if it is still possible. -
@gpatel-fr said in French ID app interoperability.:
I was talking about the chat control that the French gov (among a majority of European countries) is supporting. I don't know where it is currently, there is still work to do for the paranoid mad guys. What is concerning is that it is supposed to be enforced by having the 'secure' OS controlling the applications at the behest of the err, benevolent, err, leaders.
But this thing was rejected, This is no longer relevant at this time:
From my understanding this french ID app is currently in early stages and is currently used by a small minority (Only 1 Million downloads in playstore, probably many downloaded just to test it, and don't really use it at the time)
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Nice work @pparent
And thank you for contacting them.
If they want they can contact us for help and I'm willing to listen to their potential blocking points so this can be a reference for other EU governments. -
They have not reached out to me again, but I would say every french citizen that use UT is entitled to contact them about this concern and the more they receive requests about that, the more they are likely to take it seriously. And I guess it is also possible to send them a message in the name of the fundation with an offer for assistance on the technical side.
https://france-identite.gouv.fr/contact/
Ps: By the way an argument that seems efficient to draw their attention lately, in the current context, is stressing that by not being inter-operable (as they are legally obliged) they are effectively offering a duopoly to 2 American companies, and preventing any potential alternative from emerging.
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@pparent great idea !
mail send to support@france-identite.gouv.fr -
@pparent said in French ID app interoperability.:
They have not reached out to me again
I followed your path with the MiDNI and they ignored me as well...
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@pparent said in French ID app interoperability.:
This is no longer relevant at this time:
hmm, it did not take long for this beast to resurrect:
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By the way, following the recent positions of the American government, the French government has launched its council for technological sovereignty ("Observatoire de la souveraineté numérique"). It might really be an opportunity for us to argue against the duopoly in the mobile world that happen to be American, and especially to argue for the public services to be inclusive with alternatives that offer sovereignty at all levels, including individual. It seems to be a period when there is an opening for change, so maybe we should take advantage of this.
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@pparent This is absolutely perfect information, unfortunately I don't think posting a link here will help anything and it would be better to contact the right places in your country than to expect someone from the community to actively take up this activity here.
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@DJac I also wrote to them today
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Well I guess this type of gouvernemental organization will not be interested in individual feedback of individual, but it is consulting some associations, so with a lot of luck fondations like Ubports might have a word to say.
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Shouldn't this franco-frenchy thread better be in https://forums.ubports.com/category/133/french-francais section of the forum ?
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@Keneda I think this is of general interest, at least for all European Union countries. We all suffer from the imposition by public authorities of services/procedures which can only be done in Android/IOS devices, sometimes even requiring non-rooted devices. If a private firm does it, well, it's their choice and we can choose not to buy from them, but if a government does it it's affecting our freedom.
