Talk to the Non-Geek People
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@nero355 Feel free in your case to fully read up and understand how things work in a complete and total way. Many people don't need or want to. For instance a quick start guide to a product is the most many people need. They pick up more info as they go. That does not mean that they are wrong or lack something by not needing to know all the inside out details. In fact reading that stuff may well put them off. If you enjoy that, great. Many don't.
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@nero355 If you don't like youtube, I understand that. You can do
Odysee
peertube
Mastodon
Vimeo
Invidious
Pixelfed
. . .there are a lot.
En tiktok . . . and the shorter, the better. People doesn't spend to much time unless they pay for it . . . nevermind, they even ignore netflix, and pay for it. -
Ok so do we agree here that there could be some sort of tutorial on the website that is almost the first thing you'll see ? A step by step presentation of the os and its core functionalities, with short videos interseded with short text explaining plainly how this all works, let's say, the differences and similarities with what people already know and some how tos organized in a summary, from the installation to, say, taking a screenshot (which I had to browse the forum to learn btw) ? Or is it worth debating because people should somehow "deserve" to be here ? I believe wide adoption IS the goal here, but if some people think the website and its documentation are fine as they stand, and are comprehensive enough, please come forward because I don't see that argument being properly made in that thread. Another hand, we could just start throwing ideas on how we think the ideal welcome page should look like when we try to think like our less tech-savvy relatives.
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@emphrath
I can't disagree with most of your post.Only one thing : videos on the internet are 70% of all energy it consumes, and that's not good for ecology nor in most case a necessity, simple images with explicit text is enough.
And you even don't need to rewind anything when you need to see again something, just scroll back.
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@keneda Well, the "videos" could be more like a powerpoint presentation and not actual video.
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@emphrath said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:
Ok so do we agree here that there could be some sort of tutorial on the website that is almost the first thing you'll see ? A step by step presentation of the os and its core functionalities, with short videos interseded with short text explaining plainly how this all works, let's say, the differences and similarities with what people already know and some how tos organized in a summary, from the installation to, say, taking a screenshot (which I had to browse the forum to learn btw) ?
Both Apple and Google don't offer anything like that so why should Ubuntu Touch ?!
The only thing that I do see beeing usefull :
Instructions shown inside the OS after the first boot like Jolla Sailfish has for example and some Android phones too!
My phones :
- BQ Aquaris E5 HD Ubuntu Phone Edition - Ubuntu Touch 16.04 LTS
- ZUK Z2 Pro - ZUI Android 8.x
- Xiaomi Mi 9T - Jolla SailFish 3.4.x Community Build
P.S. : I am NOT a developer! ;)
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@nero355 said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:
Both Apple and Google don't offer anything like that so why should Ubuntu Touch ?!
Not a real argument.
Also every proposal is good to consider. We are a community and the needs of the few is important too.
Of course more energy is focused on good things for the many ; but if someone is willing to do the job for a fringe population then it's welcome and the community thanks them.So thanks for the idea and thanks to the people willing to help in this matter.
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@nero355 said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:
Both Apple and Google don't offer anything like that so why should Ubuntu Touch ?!
Because Ubuntu Touch community has user in sight, all kind of user, and not all kind of income ^^
We should not look at what is not done by those gafam to act ourself.
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@keneda said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:
@nero355 said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:
Both Apple and Google don't offer anything like that so why should Ubuntu Touch ?!
Because Ubuntu Touch community has user in sight, all kind of user, and not all kind of income ^^
We should not look at what is not done by those gafam to act ourself.
True, but still : It's funny when you think about it!
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@emphrath said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:
Ok so do we agree here that there could be some sort of tutorial on the website that is almost the first thing you'll see ? A step by step presentation of the os and its core functionalities, with short videos interseded with short text explaining plainly how this all works, let's say, the differences and similarities with what people already know and some how tos organized in a summary, from the installation to, say, taking a screenshot (which I had to browse the forum to learn btw) ?
YES!
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@emphrath said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:
[...] You don't want me to touch html code
Good thing is the docs are written in reStructuredText, no HTML involved and pretty easy to write in any text editor. Or I can convert an odf/docx file for you, if you want (and make some simple diagrams if you add photos/images/doodles/descriptions).
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We need more technical writers that are skilled in English language. But here is the problem:
- If you are a skilled technical writer you probably work in this profession and get paid in your day job - What is the motivation to additionally continue at end of business day to do the same stuff, but this time for free?
- If you aren´t a skilled technical writer you will find out that becoming one needs a lot of practise and review from others that are skilled - and they need to spend time with you - go back to item 1.
Our allover contribution problem is: We cannot pay so many people to do stuff, and the hobbyists are not able to go that deep into all of that documentation matter since it needs continuous work for weeks, not only spend a few hours on the weekend. Since - the project is changing everyday, you need to follow that pace with the documents too.
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@flohack
Doing stuff for free should not be an issue for people who like this project, but getting the right information about certain things from the developers does seem to be an issue!I have already asked multiple times if we can get a list of phones that won't be supported by the 20.04 LTS upgrade and so far no one seems to be interested in giving us such a list ?!
Because IF we had one, then I could for example edit all the details of all the phones listed @ https://devices.ubports.io and add some kind of banner of something to warn people about the future upgrade path for those phones!
Another thing that really bothers me are this kind of comments :
@lakotaubp said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 115 Is This Saturday At 19:00 UTC:JFI WayDroid is now a totally seperate project to UBports and UT and as such is not a drain on resources.
As to whether it is good idea to run android apps on UT that is down to the individual themselves and in some cases maybe a way to avoid carrying two phones about. Don't forget in some places certain apps are all most if not already a requirement (covid ones for example). WayDroid maybe a good answer.Why are we even talking about that kind of stuff here ?!
Someone who uses Ubuntu Touch should be someone who DOESN'T WANT that kind of apps on his phone at all either native or emulated !!!
Sometimes I have got the feeling that people just want a phone which is basically Android with a fancy skin on top!
There is even some idiot on the Jolla Sailfish Forum who actually sent an e-mail to his government and asking them for support of such apps on both Ubuntu Touch and Jolla Sailfish phones!
That's just ridiculous!
I also had a good laugh reading this : https://blog.brixit.nl/do-you-really-want-linux-phones/
It's written by a PostmarketOS developer and the guy is also active on another forum where I hang around a lot : We both had a lot of fun talking about that article!
TL;DR :
Which direction are we heading ?!
Is there any actualy future for Ubuntu Touch in beeing actually Ubuntu Touch with Convergence instead of just beeing another phone OS with a small marketshare and beeing able to run Android crApps ?!My phones :
- BQ Aquaris E5 HD Ubuntu Phone Edition - Ubuntu Touch 16.04 LTS
- ZUK Z2 Pro - ZUI Android 8.x
- Xiaomi Mi 9T - Jolla SailFish 3.4.x Community Build
P.S. : I am NOT a developer! ;)
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@flohack i see your point, but I think we're talking about a different thing here. Maybe the documentation is indeed lacking as I see some prospective devs on this forum that struggle to find the info they need - but it's another matter totally. The issue here is what we show to people who want to know the daily things they can do with their os, and how they can do it. Since we, as users, have that knowledge, I don't see what prevents us from sharing that very much non-technical knowledge - the same way we would if we had to display UT possibilities to a friend or a relative
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@nero355 Your opinons are your opinions and others are entitled to thiers it does not make them idiots. Nor do you have anymore right than anyone else to say who should or should not use UT, this forum or how they use it. Please show respect for others views and how they want to use their phones. Some of your comments are missing there mark.
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@lakotaubp
So you would like to see those things happen ?!REALLY ?!
I hope I am wrong or misunderstood you!
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@nero355 It matters little what I think or use my phone for. What does matter is that everyone is welcome on this Forum as long as they follow the rules and discuss things in a polite and friendly manner. You can be robust, forthright but not rude or disrespectful of others views ir situation. Not everyone can avoid using android or iOS apps depending on their situation WayDroid may be the only way forward for them. Same with convergence, not everyone will want to run UT apps on a big screen. Doesn't mean they are wrong. Same with covid apps (whatever you think of covid) you may be required to use them. Having a native linux version woludbe ideal. Highly unlikely but not idiotic.
All points of view are welcome and welcome to be discussed within the Ubuntu code of conduct.That is all that matters. -
@nero355 the problem is i think that you don't understand other people's needs/wishes. You have your right to your opinion, and to use your phone however you'd like, but others do too. What i fail to understand is that you want to use your phone this way, why take avay the ability from others to use their phones that way. You seem to take aon offencein just suggesting to make it easyer fon newcommers to start understanding how the operating system works, but why? Some people from an untechnicall background, and the current stuff is not really understandable for them. That doesn't mean, they dont wish to learn, but I can speak from experience, it's not easy to start, when you don't even know where to start. Also for many people a computer or phone is a tool, that they must use for daily life, and not a second profession, that they must master to the core, or something that they want to study for hours upon hours just to understand some core functions. I don't think why that should be outrageous, and why UT should be some nieche hardcore stuff, that only the elitest of the elit can use, and why should there be only one proper way to use it. Open mindedness is i think what makes this community so great. I hope you understand my points, and not just call me another heritic. All the best
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@lundrin17
I'll add that if UT was for, and only for advanced users and "tech savy", then that would't be a security first based OS, we'd have a normal filesystem without click apps, like any other gnu/linux for mobile devices out there.
