Email Application

wizardi3

@moem All of the major email service providers are using web apps. The email client is a standalone service not part of the mail servers. Understanding how Thunderbird and K-9 function, There is no Thunderbird for phones and no K-9 for desktop is helpful in understanding what a mail client should do. As a mobile OS you may only need a web and not a desktop program. K-9 currently only supports Android I look for it to support iOS in the future why not Ubuntu Touch. https://k9mail.app/2022/06/13/K-9-Mail-and-Thunderbird

Keneda

@wizardi3 said in Email Application:

why not Ubuntu Touch

That'll be up to mozilla anf k9 devs.
But that would be perfect indeed.
Or someone with the skill to do do, to take Dekko in hands.

MrT10001

Email clients seem to have some overheads, here is Thunderbirds on Linux (64 bit):

Software Requirements

Please note that GNU/Linux distributors may provide packages for your distribution which have different requirements.

Thunderbird will not run at all without the following libraries or packages:
    glibc 2.17 or higher
    GTK+ 3.14 or higher
    libstdc++ 4.8.1 or higher
    X.Org 1.0 or higher (1.7 or higher is recommended)

For optimal functionality, we recommend the following libraries or packages:
    DBus 1.0 or higher
    GNOME 2.16 or higher
    libxtst 1.2.3 or higher
    NetworkManager 0.7 or higher
    PulseAudio

I have had very little issue with Dekko2 on most devices.

Keneda

@mrt10001 said in Email Application:

I have had very little issue with Dekko2 on most devices

However it would really need some love

MrT10001

@keneda If I had the ability it would get it.........

flohack

So some points to clear up potential confusion:

Dekko indeed supports imap8s) and pop3(s) and smtp(s), and it is a stand-alone App made specifically to work with Ubuntu Touch.
As such it has the highest level of possible privacy: The email is stored on a trusted mail server (maybe your own like I do), and is encrypted in transit. On the device only Dekko and the user have the rights to see email data.
In fact I also have roundcube installed on my mail server, as a web interface towards my mail server. Roundcube is a popular webmail client software written in PHP.
But, now here comes the issue, I cannot fully trust Roundcube. In theory it could exfiltrate emails and send them to somewhere without my knowledge (Can also happen with Dekko, but I know the author and I can easily inspect the source code) as it is very hard for me to read all underlying PHP code to audit this. Still, I trust the internet community to hopefully having detected such a behaviour earlier and to having triggered security alerts, if ther was the need.
Now I am not sure what @wizardi3 is really offering here: If you provide a web app to read and write mails it is even worse: You would be in full control of the hosting server and the Apps code, and even so if you show the source code and proof it is benign, you could run a different version on your server and introspect / exfiltrate whatever you want.
If you are really concerned about privacy you would therefore never recommend people to use a web app that needs to be served from a 3rd party server (Other web app operation modes are not easy to implement on UT)

Please describe exactly in technical terms (no buzzwords) how you intend to solve that problem(s). The only real trustworthy way is to write a native UT email client, and upload it into our Openstore so that it complies with our app policies, and is recognized by the users to be trustworthy.

kugiigi

Dekko is one of the best convergent app in UT if not the best. Sadly, it hasn't really gotten considerable development time in the past years. If I use email clients a lot, I would work on it but I never use email clients for personal use, except Dekko. I have reference of how it should work or behave.

domubpkm

Dekko does not require a few hours of work here and there to become a good email client. I think someone with the skills should be find, commissioned and payed to solve all the issues of dekko and make it reliable, because no one will want to attack it in depth for glory. As it is, I uninstalled it a long time ago.

wizardi3

@flohack On modifying source code. Aside from being unethical and illegal, it's unnecessary, if your business is data mining there is plenty of data readily available, add a phone app on any platform and you increase the volume and value of the data.

We have been providing secure email services primarily to organizations since 1995 We don't collect or sell data. Our focus is on preventing internal and external threats.

Moem

This post is deleted!

flohack

@wizardi3 So how does your business model look like then?

wizardi3

@flohack said in Email Application:

@wizardi3 So how does your business model look like then?

We provide secure email services, paid for by user fees. We do not collect or sell any data.

domubpkm

@wizardi3 So you are an email provider like Proton Mail, Tutanota, Mailo and others? That's it ? or do you differ in a few points?

wizardi3

@domubpkm Structurally similar to the others, then it gets complicated.

We don't offer phone apps because we believe they defeat privacy, instead we recommend a privacy centered browser like Tor.
We are based in the United States, we believe that provides the best combination of freedom in how we operate and the user information we are required to keep.
We don't believe we are immune to government surveillance you shouldn't believe anyone is. The highest level of security is between users on the same secure service.
We are small and don't plan to become large, we have an adequate user base.

domubpkm

@wizardi3 Far from being convinced that you will be able to convince European UT users, and not only, to join an email provider located in the United States, but you are right to try as a boss. You will need really strong arguments.

marekf

This post is deleted!

domubpkm

@marekf Please, there is no political judgment on the forum. The UT community is cosmopolitan. Everyone is welcome here and helps according to their knowledge, which allows UT to progress.

cliffcoggin

@wizardi3 said in Email Application:

We are based in the United States, we believe that provides the best combination of freedom in how we operate and the user information we are required to keep.

Sorry to disappoint, but those of us in Europe are unlikely to trust a US company unless it can be differentiated from the dozens or even hundreds of competitors ostensibly offering the same service.

wizardi3

@domubpkm said in Email Application:

@wizardi3 Far from being convinced that you will be able to convince European UT users, and not only, to join an email provider located in the United States, but you are right to try as a boss. You will need really strong arguments.

We have users around the world, and users that travel the world. My comment about our location was technical, not political. How is it technical and not political, because countries have treaties with other countries which means one may be subject to unknown agreements . In Europe those treaties involve 54+ countries. A case in point https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/

I am not here to convince you, I am sorry I mentioned it. I am here to test the privacy of UT phones at the request of some users. The question is now moot as my UT phone and theirs become paper weights after October 1, 2022 as UT does not support VoLTE.

Lakotaubp

@wizardi3 said in Email Application:

UT does not support VoLTE.

Yet! working is progressing at a pace.