@dobey thanks for sharing. Not sure where I or anyone made the point you are attempting to counter with but good reminders overall and in general.

@3arn0wl all about the software? Its Both thats all I was saying. You need both. Its up to the user to decide how they will want to use it. Some will be fans for different aspects. After all there are those who buy S9 without dex or using it like a convergent device. Others buy it w dex. Hence qualifying it for him. For him its all about software.

@dobey said in Convergence: The Hardware-Focused Discussion Thread:

This is my problem with the whole focus on "convergence" as "plug your device into an external screen." That is not what convergence is about, but it's what so many seem to try and focus on.

I see what you mean. But I think for you that isn't what its all about. For many it is. Canonical did showcase this aspect as a major feature and there is a company who is literally shipping a product that people are buying for this very purpose. But we can agree to disagree.

Steve Jobs refused to release a bigger iPhone. He claimed it would cannibalize iPad sales. But now looking back we see bigger iphones and bigger iPad's. Both are selling. Nothing was replaced and I don't think anyone claimed converged devices would literally replace all our devices.

I agree with your point though about keylogging on public docks. That would be a threat to seriously consider.

@3arn0wl said in Convergence: The Hardware-Focused Discussion Thread:

I suggested snaps because we'll need desktop apps, and snaps are an easy way to load them. As much as I'd like to see it, I can't imagine we'll get app builders writing apps for everything we need... Maybe some apps will just be for desktop mode.

Agreed. Some snaps would not be built with convergence in mind...but some will. This is the hardest part - to get developers to think convergent. I think we will get there. IBM is still pushing out marketing about the benefits of "coding once, run everywhere".

https://twitter.com/IBM/status/1101629012407922693

This framework will greatly expedite convergent development because programmers are "lazy" and there is a cost benefit from doing so (more reach, more eyeballs, more eyeballs means more attention and potential for ad revenue). https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/01/08/developers-are-lazy-and-thats-usually-a-good-thing/#5ddc228a1391

But I think Canonical had a good idea when they had the standard window size of their "staging" window when using split screen. It wasn't free form. Here is demo of what they came up with before they dropped it.

https://youtu.be/fiEkCaA_P7c?t=155

Lo and behold, those dimensions are oddly close to mobile phone dimensions. Was this on accident. No. You can create an app view as well as a multi-task pane for tablet use - perhaps without changing much code.

P.s. Apple also has this framework for managing an "app" view while in multi-tasking/split window mode and standardizes that as well...this makes it easier for devs to come along and code for that standard. Here is a link to that. https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/ios/visual-design/adaptivity-and-layout/

PurismOS goes into this and does a nice job at explaining that this can, and technically has, already been pulled off.
They describe it on the second half of the article.

https://puri.sm/posts/converging-on-convergence-pureos-is-convergent-welcome-to-the-future/

Being linux users in general, our crowd has been the one that championed innovation and forward thinking...after all, even people doubted GUI interfaces wholesale at one point believe it or not. Let's not get too close to that kind of thinking.

@doniks said in Convergence: The Hardware-Focused Discussion Thread:

One thing that I find a bit surprising is that "convergence conversations" are usually of a either/or mindset. I want convergence, but I do not necessarily want it instead of another device/setup that I have now, I want it in addition.

This!

People thought a slab of glass would replace laptops. We still have laptops and we have a ton of tablets. People thought laptops would replace desktops. We have both. Folks thought cars would replace trucks. We have trucks. We have cars still. Both co-exist.

I think it is important to observe history when it comes to how mainstream society adopts and adapts to technology and how we interface it...and get our design/product insights from that (not saying let it drive the entire ship, that would be silly) but at least let those things inform our opinions rather than hyper-personalizing how we use devices and trying to infuse that with an entire demographic of users who are not like us.

When this happens, I think we have a better shot at moving the conversation forward.Thanks @wayneoutthere for posting the article. This is a great discussion.

1. What is the biggest misunderstanding that folks have about the project and what should be the communities response when they encounter it from others?

2. What are one or two challenges (technical or otherwise) that if solved would be a huge game changer to help the project by leaps and bounds?

Great idea.

Another angle similar to that is getting local colleges/universities aware through their Computer Science Clubs (some actually have FOSS/linux clubs too). Having them cover it, and in turn the university papers, could not just bring in new people, but new volunteers to the project.

Anyway, whether it is a school paper, or local/national, press release templates are a good way to jump start that so folks don't have to "create from scratch" every single time. I wonder building something like this would be helpful in getting folks the confidence to share...essentially, a press page is a bunch of templates that makes it easier for reporters to cover it.

The press page contains a "press kit"...sometimes in the page, and in zip folders (with logos, headshots of core devs, origin story summarized, etc.)

https://zapier.com/blog/best-press-kit/

Hello,

I know being mindful of security/privacy is a factor for many FOSS projects...found this and thought this might be good for anyone who wants to do email marketing in a way that is cost-effective and respectful of user data...

Odoo is a great platform, but you have options if you don't want to keep email contacts on someone else's server. Not saying this is a good fit for UBports right now (or ever), but cool to keep on the radar. It is GPLv2.

https://dadamailproject.com/

Dada Mail is a contemporary mailing list manager, enabling you to easily run a verified mailing list that your subscribers can trust - right on your own website!

Keep complete control over your valuable mailing lists: there's no need to sign up for an expensive monthly service when you can self-host Dada Mail.

Reach your customers via email with Dada Mail and keep them connected with your special news, announcements, events, and special offers - even run community discussion lists. Private lists or public lists; announcement lists or group lists: let Dada Mail work for you.

Easily install Dada Mail yourself on most any popular hosting setup, or have us help you with a professional installation.

Become a Pro Dada Mailer : get access to Pro Dada, our constantly updated manual, as well as direct priority support for all your Dada Mail questions.

Need more email sending power? Dada Mail optionally supports sending with Amazon SES for an almost unlimited sending capability, without going over-budget.

However, I can't get behind the idea of bringing in every Agile and project management tactic straight from the book at this scale.

@unisuperbox no one ever anything remotely close to that. But I see the fear. There is a middle ground.

@flohack I'm interested in whether or not you can answer, respond, speak to the specific points I've mentioned in the past few posts. It feels as though you are choosing not to get specific and conveniently keeping things high level...when you do that, I don't think anyone, including myself, would disagree...like the concept of meritocracy.

If not, that is fine. I'll let those in the community decide whether or not you are more interested in clinging on to your arguments as an attempt to make sure the status quo remains...as suppose to using this as an opportunity to revisit your position and maybe tweak how elements of the project are handled. And respond to posts....

Oh, that comment about practical work more than just cosmetic "formatting of colors"...lol that was cute. I think anyone who has followed this thread has realized by now I've been talking about deeply serious and significant aspects of marketing, scaling, and strategy. I'm pretty sure others will see your attempt to take attention away from the points I've made.

But on the point of Meritocracy, I was actually surprised that card wasn't used earlier. I think @twinkybot made a good point about how you measure dedication and contribution. Is it ONLY the programming/development that counts? Seriously, I think it would be great to get your answer at least that one @Flohack . Also, do the merits of ideas count? Can the best ideas win? Which will then impact what is actually done? Or is it more specifically, only doing things that @Flohack and those with "power" agree with? Nevermind if it is outside their domain of expertise. Lastly, on this point of merit, how can one demonstrate the merit of their contribution IF THEY DON'T GET ACCESS OR OPPORTUNITY TO CONTRIBUTE????? If someone wants to contribute in the domain that is NOT technical but gets denied, ignored, or ideas shot down, how can one develop a reputation that merits more influence and impact? Anyone reading this, let me know if i'm not explaining myself here correctly and take a stab. I hope I'm making sense.

See, if a different posture towards these ideas was taken, there would be more of an experimental spirit to testing these things.(and not dismissal like "font colors")...for good measure, someone on the marketing team would agree to "test" ideas on a very small scale and go from there...kinda like beta testing features....No one goes ALL IN on a beta, but they want to see proof of concept to see if it works first before shutting it down. Just as a marketing tip: Surveys are great "beta" test for ideas.... Have you guys ever done a survey asking the community what they think about things?

But, because @Flohack's lack of addressing my specific points, it makes me wonder......do you prefer conditions of - "we are just a small team"? Does this in some twisted way give you cover when people actually point out legitimate criticism? I have to ask because I would think by now some concessions would have been made to our points...but there is nothing....

@UniSuperBox - even back when I was on the team, you yourself were asking for even BASIC milestones/timelines...@Flohack , you noticed I didn't say sophisticated scrum strategies....basic elements....in fact, I think we were in the same telegram group with Marius when I would request alternatives with @UniSuperBox . So, this isn't a new thing people with "merit" and those who don't have merit have been asking for for some time. I think the community would understand that we aren't there yet with super advance projections...so I'm confused when folks make it seem we are asking for SixSigma operations llevel of milestone planning lol. But glad that progress has been made in this area and would agree milestones from other aspects [nontechnical] be given as well. Again something is better than nothing.

I'll leave things here since I don't think it is going anywhere...@Flohack - you can have the last word since you've been with the project and contributed more than most. I would also invite you to a video call to hash this out since this medium of communication isn't always best for breaking down these concepts.