New wannabe user / helper
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@lakotaubp Is the goal to copy Android and iOS, or make a powerful operating platform on the phone hardware? Cause one of those sounds way cooler than the other, I specifically want this in order to have a powerful platform, not a simple controlled one.
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@lakotaubp Hey is this replacing Android or running on top of (some) of it?
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@lakotaubp This totally isn't like an android app that sorta looks like linux is it?
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@sam-strelitz UT is none of this but you're in for a huge disappointment if you're looking for "just linux on a phone". UT works by flashing an .img on your phone. It's quite static by nature and updates are made by re-flashing the whole system partition. This and the fact that root is read-only by design means you won't be able to run apt for instance, or if you do, by making root writeable, everything you installed will be wiped by the next update. Apps are installed from a store which uses an in-house format: .click. Most apps are sandboxed for security reasons and if you intend to write a custom script, expect hassles to access the hardware, which is heavily confined I believe. Now the way UT interacts with hardware is not by being an android app, or a VM, but it does use a layer of android to be able to use proprietary drivers (which, contrary to PC, is a norm on phones) and on top of that, there's also a level of "emulation" called Halium, and most phones run all this before they even start UT, except for "native" devices like volla or pinephone, and the Pixel is not one of them. There are numerous charts on this forum which describe the compatibility layers system better than I did. UT is focused on being a user-friendly experience and it achieves it. If what you want is tinkering, you might want to look elsewhere.
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@emphrath said in New wannabe user / helper:
except for "native" devices like volla or pinephone
VollaPhone is not a native device, it is hallium, and a mediatek chip by the way.
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@emphrath Oh it's a 'layer on top of android', so it's running android core, android VM, and has all the flaws of android and the slowness, and none of the compatbility? Is anything good about it? So I can't run a native binary at all, I have to run everything through android through it's Java VM?
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@sam-strelitz said in New wannabe user / helper:
Oh it's a 'layer on top of android', so it's running android core, android VM, and has all the flaws of android and the slowness,
No it's not a "layer" on top of android.
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@sam-strelitz I can build an image to flash, can I customize that and have it execute programs, and then mount the free space as a filesystem? Or an SD card as a filesystem? Can I add programs to the image easily, is there like an image building utility, although yeah if it has to go through android stuff, and less things are available than android and all the restrictions of android are present, what's the point?
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@sam-strelitz
See there for better understanding hallium devices :
https://halium.org/If you want a native gnu/linux device, with no traces of android, for now the only choice is Pinephone, but uTouch on it will be the same, sandboxing apps, read only by defaut, etc...
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@keneda Wait, so pinephone is an actual linux phone, and the only one? Like it's got no android at all, and you can run a c++ program on it? Or does it require java vm too for some 'mysterious' reason? And no other actual linux phones exist, everything else is android (or ios) with a layer on top of it that sorta claims to be linux-like and has some source available for that specific portion, which is essentially an app, like a desktop rendering app? Is pinephone really linux? I think this Ubuntu Touch is sorta maybe mislabeled? Or do no phones exist that'll run a c++ program I write, and compile it, to run on the arm64 cpu?
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@sam-strelitz Yes PinePhone https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ is the only one afaik and has a number of OS running on it. I think one of those may be more suited to your needs but as I don't own one that is as far as I can go for now.
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@sam-strelitz
No Pinephone isn't the only one avaliable, there is one other, the Librem 5 from Purism, but it costs 700$ and out of stock most of the time.
It comes with librem OS gnu/linux, wich is kind of regular one.
uTouch is said to be ported on it in futur, but for now, it's only on Pinephone.About uTouch, you can do quite whatever you want on it, but you must make it read/write, tweak it some way, and not doing OTA updates.
uTouch is an os designed for any users, not only power linux ones, so out of box, it's made with safety first in mind, and easy to use.
Anyway, hallium devices are real linux devices with uTouch on it, problem is closed source hardware that need some android stuff (most are drivers from manufacturers) starting with android linux kernel for that device.
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Hi @sam-strelitz
You seems to have some technical knowledge, so I think that what is best for you right now is to look into the documentation first and then ask some focused questions.I don't want to sound too much 'RTFM", but you have a very broad set of questions and most people are not able to answer everything without misleading you.
A quick summary:
- The Pinephone runs an almost mainlined kernel and is more open then halium based ports.
This is probably the best hardware for your needs from what I understand. - Halium is an abstraction layer to access proprietary drivers inherited from android and based on the same kernel. The rest of the system is Ubuntu Touch and has nothing in common with android.
- Ubuntu Touch is mostly C/C++ and QML for the GUI. No Java works and if you need it, you need to bring all the dependencies within your app.
- For app development, you can use Clickable it's very neat and simple to use.
- For building the system Alfred talked about a PDK he made that is probably the easiest way to go into system development.
That's nice to see motivated new people coming in here.
I hope you'll like UT and will be able to contribute a little. - The Pinephone runs an almost mainlined kernel and is more open then halium based ports.
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@sam-strelitz the layer is only to access drivers, no java stuff.
you can make cpp apps qml, python, ect. the limitation is mostly support for the mir graphics that complicates things ( as well 'normal' apps are sandboxed)
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@keneda yep, sorry, my mistake.
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I suppose it needs saying again in here, for clarity of @Sam-Strelitz
Ubuntu Touch is not a traditional PC Linux distribution, and phones are not traditional PCs.
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@dobey Well, now people are saying different things. Also if I can get a C++ program to run natively on this phone, I can get other OSS working right? LOL my phone showed up today, gonna try it. How tricky is it to build a custom image to load with the ubport loader? Also what's the fundamental difference between a phone, and a portable arm64 pc with a 4g net adapter and wifi and a touchscreen? That it's got flash memory instead of an SSD?
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Oh okay I see clickable, I use that to cross compile from what, Linux environment to target arm64? Are good libraries already ported, and/or easy to build for this target? I guess that's easier than running gcc-arm64 on the phone lol, so yeah I'll get my cross compiler setup, maybe on uh, is Windows okay as a dev environment for this or should I use linux? Well, I can't wait to run hello world in C++ and performance test it lol. I assume it's got some libstdc++ or whatever it's called already built, and integrated with clickable? I'm an aerospace software engineer as my day job btw.
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Also does ubtouch have a terminal on the phone, and maybe a telnet or ssh server on there too for remote terminal control from the pc or internet?
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Neat thing I spotted on amazon, it's a windows laptop with a 4G/LTE adapter, so you can do data over 4G/LTE from a laptop! Heck if you throw in a touchscreen and break the keyboard lol it's basically a huge phone, assuming someone's got a windows app that'll do phone calls over 4G/LTE. And text. Although that's way less portable than a phone. Also the laptop is x64, although arm64 windows exists, and lots of arm64 software exists, heck g++ can do most C++ code to either x64 or arm64 really easily. I assume you can put linux on the laptop with the 4G, although you'll need a driver.
https://www.amazon.com/Maximus-LTE-Ultra-Slim-Convertible-Upgradable/dp/B08HNB1ZG8
