New wannabe user / helper
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@sam-strelitz I can build an image to flash, can I customize that and have it execute programs, and then mount the free space as a filesystem? Or an SD card as a filesystem? Can I add programs to the image easily, is there like an image building utility, although yeah if it has to go through android stuff, and less things are available than android and all the restrictions of android are present, what's the point?
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@sam-strelitz
See there for better understanding hallium devices :
https://halium.org/If you want a native gnu/linux device, with no traces of android, for now the only choice is Pinephone, but uTouch on it will be the same, sandboxing apps, read only by defaut, etc...
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@keneda Wait, so pinephone is an actual linux phone, and the only one? Like it's got no android at all, and you can run a c++ program on it? Or does it require java vm too for some 'mysterious' reason? And no other actual linux phones exist, everything else is android (or ios) with a layer on top of it that sorta claims to be linux-like and has some source available for that specific portion, which is essentially an app, like a desktop rendering app? Is pinephone really linux? I think this Ubuntu Touch is sorta maybe mislabeled? Or do no phones exist that'll run a c++ program I write, and compile it, to run on the arm64 cpu?
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@sam-strelitz Yes PinePhone https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ is the only one afaik and has a number of OS running on it. I think one of those may be more suited to your needs but as I don't own one that is as far as I can go for now.
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@sam-strelitz
No Pinephone isn't the only one avaliable, there is one other, the Librem 5 from Purism, but it costs 700$ and out of stock most of the time.
It comes with librem OS gnu/linux, wich is kind of regular one.
uTouch is said to be ported on it in futur, but for now, it's only on Pinephone.About uTouch, you can do quite whatever you want on it, but you must make it read/write, tweak it some way, and not doing OTA updates.
uTouch is an os designed for any users, not only power linux ones, so out of box, it's made with safety first in mind, and easy to use.
Anyway, hallium devices are real linux devices with uTouch on it, problem is closed source hardware that need some android stuff (most are drivers from manufacturers) starting with android linux kernel for that device.
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Hi @sam-strelitz
You seems to have some technical knowledge, so I think that what is best for you right now is to look into the documentation first and then ask some focused questions.I don't want to sound too much 'RTFM", but you have a very broad set of questions and most people are not able to answer everything without misleading you.
A quick summary:
- The Pinephone runs an almost mainlined kernel and is more open then halium based ports.
This is probably the best hardware for your needs from what I understand. - Halium is an abstraction layer to access proprietary drivers inherited from android and based on the same kernel. The rest of the system is Ubuntu Touch and has nothing in common with android.
- Ubuntu Touch is mostly C/C++ and QML for the GUI. No Java works and if you need it, you need to bring all the dependencies within your app.
- For app development, you can use Clickable it's very neat and simple to use.
- For building the system Alfred talked about a PDK he made that is probably the easiest way to go into system development.
That's nice to see motivated new people coming in here.
I hope you'll like UT and will be able to contribute a little. - The Pinephone runs an almost mainlined kernel and is more open then halium based ports.
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@sam-strelitz the layer is only to access drivers, no java stuff.
you can make cpp apps qml, python, ect. the limitation is mostly support for the mir graphics that complicates things ( as well 'normal' apps are sandboxed)
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@keneda yep, sorry, my mistake.
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I suppose it needs saying again in here, for clarity of @Sam-Strelitz
Ubuntu Touch is not a traditional PC Linux distribution, and phones are not traditional PCs.
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@dobey Well, now people are saying different things. Also if I can get a C++ program to run natively on this phone, I can get other OSS working right? LOL my phone showed up today, gonna try it. How tricky is it to build a custom image to load with the ubport loader? Also what's the fundamental difference between a phone, and a portable arm64 pc with a 4g net adapter and wifi and a touchscreen? That it's got flash memory instead of an SSD?
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Oh okay I see clickable, I use that to cross compile from what, Linux environment to target arm64? Are good libraries already ported, and/or easy to build for this target? I guess that's easier than running gcc-arm64 on the phone lol, so yeah I'll get my cross compiler setup, maybe on uh, is Windows okay as a dev environment for this or should I use linux? Well, I can't wait to run hello world in C++ and performance test it lol. I assume it's got some libstdc++ or whatever it's called already built, and integrated with clickable? I'm an aerospace software engineer as my day job btw.
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Also does ubtouch have a terminal on the phone, and maybe a telnet or ssh server on there too for remote terminal control from the pc or internet?
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Neat thing I spotted on amazon, it's a windows laptop with a 4G/LTE adapter, so you can do data over 4G/LTE from a laptop! Heck if you throw in a touchscreen and break the keyboard lol it's basically a huge phone, assuming someone's got a windows app that'll do phone calls over 4G/LTE. And text. Although that's way less portable than a phone. Also the laptop is x64, although arm64 windows exists, and lots of arm64 software exists, heck g++ can do most C++ code to either x64 or arm64 really easily. I assume you can put linux on the laptop with the 4G, although you'll need a driver.
https://www.amazon.com/Maximus-LTE-Ultra-Slim-Convertible-Upgradable/dp/B08HNB1ZG8
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Okay I'm excited, I grabbed a new usb 3.0 128GB drive, I'll throw ubuntu desktop on there to build a phone builder linux os, and I also got a 3.0 hub.
Cheap too, drive was $20, hub was $15. -
Hey I was browing the open store, that's where the apps are right, and I spotted a facebook app, I use that a lot on my android, but I noticed the app was in javascript? Anyone got a C++ version of that, or is that an option yet, or do we need to add ez c++ app support? I assume a C++ facebook client would run really well? And could be derived from the javascript code, anyone good at porting javascript to c++?
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Hey is there a bug report section? I'm doing UBPorts Installer for Windows for Pixel 3A, and in the instructions it says developer mode is in settings, but it's actually in system settings -> advanced, that could be more clear. Thanks.
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Hey I'm trying to downgrade my new Pixel 3a from 11 to 9, but the android flash program says no sargo image available? Any idea why? What happens if I flash ubtouch with android 11 on there?
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OK, OK time to slow down a bit, thats a lot of questions one after the other on quite a few sublects
With all those questions and answers this thread is going to beome a confused mess. Best to keep them seperate for your benefit and others.There is a subsection for your phone over at https://forums.ubports.com/category/54/google so those questions are best there and may already be answered.
Edit: I see you have aready found it, but pease don't post the same question twice.There is a terminal on UT tutorials and info in here https://forums.ubports.com/topic/2008/the-ubports-tutorial-links-collection and the ssh stuff can be found in the ,docs https://docs.ubports.com/
As for your other questions they are all to techy for me, but try looking in the Support or App Dev sections of the Forum first and if nothing (though I think there may be) start a new thread in the one that is the best fit. That way it's easy to find/follow for everyone. There are people here who can and will help you but may miss things that are all mixed together.
Please carry on enjoying UT and I hope you find answers to your questions
And finally for what I really hope is the last time, as @dobey put it....Ubuntu Touch is not a traditional PC Linux distribution, and phones are not traditional PCs ...... (not even the PinePhone) no matter how you look at it, no matter what day of the week, month or year
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@lakotaubp said in New wannabe user / helper:
Edit: I see you have aready found it, but pease don't post the same question twice.
And someone already answered his downgrade problem thread ^^
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@sam-strelitz Getting some piece of FOSS software compiled and starting on a phone is trivial. Making it useful on a phone is not.
The difference is phones have limited battery and limited connectivity, and aren't designed to be in active use 24/7. And traditional apps made for traditional PCs don't tend to take such things into consideration, or are they designed to work with touch input or scale properly on a small screen that is 300-600 DPI.
I can see that you are quite excited, but if you are expecting your phone experience to be like you are used to having on a PC, you are going to be woefully disappointed (either because that isn't what you get, or because when you do get that it will be a horrible experience).
