Talk to the Non-Geek People

thousandtopics

@geekbone
You wan't a non-geek people?

People don't read. They just check if something works or they dump it.

Even if you complain too much, do you think I could read a lot of what you wrote?

Do a video, and I will consider watching it!

That's how non-geek people are.

nero355

@geekbone said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

I have loaded Ubuntu Touch onto several N5s and have given them to family members and friends. I have no where to direct them to get more information on Touch than here. If they knos nothing about linux, Ubuntu or Touch then coming here should be helpful. I am just saying, if you looked at this sight as someone who knows nothing about any of this, they would probably move on and not bother as it is overwhelming.

People do the same when you start to talk about something as simple as certain details in a random game so it's something that needs fixing "on the people side" but probably will never be fixed!

@cliffcoggin said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

I have seen those descriptions before and I rapidly get lost the moment terms like runtimes, libraries, userspace, and proprietary brand names are intoduced. I daresay if I was really interested in such things I could learn more, but the truth is that unless I can see them giving an advantage or improvement in the way the phone works I would rather spend my limited time on more useful subjects.

So learning more about a device you use daily is not worth your time ?!

Well... sadly... that's how a lot of people think and that's another thing that will probably never change...

@thousandtopics said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

You wan't a non-geek people?

People don't read. They just check if something works or they dump it.

Sadly 100% TRUE!

Do a video, and I will consider watching it!

That's how non-geek people are.

Yup!

THE REASON that I have started to hate YouTube for example over the last couple of years! :face_with_symbols_on_mouth:

Everyone has become braindead and written Reviews and HowTo articles seem to have disappeared! :pouting_face:

cliffcoggin

@nero355 said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

So learning more about a device you use daily is not worth your time ?

Apart from the essential knowledge to make the phone do what I want, no it is not. The phone, like my computer, is a tool with a job to do, and time spent learning about it rather than using it is time wasted.

I make an analogy with driving. Most people in the western world own and drive a car, but few have any knowledge of the workings of the internal combusion engine, nor do they need to if the car maker has done a thorough job of its design and the writing of its manual.

I refer you to the first principle of ergonomics. "Fit the machine to the man, not the man to the machine."

nero355

@cliffcoggin said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

Apart from the essential knowledge to make the phone do what I want, no it is not. The phone, like my computer, is a tool with a job to do, and time spent learning about it rather than using it is time wasted.

I make an analogy with driving. Most people in the western world own and drive a car, but few have any knowledge of the workings of the internal combusion engine, nor do they need to if the car maker has done a thorough job of its design and the writing of its manual.

And that too is what's wrong with the world today!

I refer you to the first principle of ergonomics. "Fit the machine to the man, not the man to the machine."

I am a big fan of ergonomics but in this case it has nothing to do with the fact that people are unwilling to learn more about the products they daily use!

GeekBone

@nero355 Again, I will just say that I posted this in the Marketing Incubator forum and it is a suggestion to try and get more people using Touch.

I am not suggesting changing anything, just to add some easy to understand/follow instructions for how to use Touch.

Lakotaubp

@nero355 Feel free in your case to fully read up and understand how things work in a complete and total way. Many people don't need or want to. For instance a quick start guide to a product is the most many people need. They pick up more info as they go. That does not mean that they are wrong or lack something by not needing to know all the inside out details. In fact reading that stuff may well put them off. If you enjoy that, great. Many don't.

thousandtopics

@nero355 If you don't like youtube, I understand that. You can do
Odysee
peertube
Mastodon
Vimeo
Invidious
Pixelfed
. . .there are a lot.
En tiktok . . . and the shorter, the better. People doesn't spend to much time unless they pay for it . . . nevermind, they even ignore netflix, and pay for it.

Emphrath

Ok so do we agree here that there could be some sort of tutorial on the website that is almost the first thing you'll see ? A step by step presentation of the os and its core functionalities, with short videos interseded with short text explaining plainly how this all works, let's say, the differences and similarities with what people already know and some how tos organized in a summary, from the installation to, say, taking a screenshot (which I had to browse the forum to learn btw) ? Or is it worth debating because people should somehow "deserve" to be here ? I believe wide adoption IS the goal here, but if some people think the website and its documentation are fine as they stand, and are comprehensive enough, please come forward because I don't see that argument being properly made in that thread. Another hand, we could just start throwing ideas on how we think the ideal welcome page should look like when we try to think like our less tech-savvy relatives.

Keneda

@emphrath
I can't disagree with most of your post.

Only one thing : videos on the internet are 70% of all energy it consumes, and that's not good for ecology nor in most case a necessity, simple images with explicit text is enough.

And you even don't need to rewind anything when you need to see again something, just scroll back.

GeekBone

@keneda Well, the "videos" could be more like a powerpoint presentation and not actual video.

Emphrath

@keneda @GeekBone Ok I mean yeah this is good too. Schematics and follow-through pics.

nero355

@emphrath said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

Ok so do we agree here that there could be some sort of tutorial on the website that is almost the first thing you'll see ? A step by step presentation of the os and its core functionalities, with short videos interseded with short text explaining plainly how this all works, let's say, the differences and similarities with what people already know and some how tos organized in a summary, from the installation to, say, taking a screenshot (which I had to browse the forum to learn btw) ?

Both Apple and Google don't offer anything like that so why should Ubuntu Touch ?!

The only thing that I do see beeing usefull :

Instructions shown inside the OS after the first boot like Jolla Sailfish has for example and some Android phones too!

AppLee

@nero355 said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

Both Apple and Google don't offer anything like that so why should Ubuntu Touch ?!

Not a real argument. :smirking_face:

Also every proposal is good to consider. We are a community and the needs of the few is important too.
Of course more energy is focused on good things for the many ; but if someone is willing to do the job for a fringe population then it's welcome and the community thanks them.

So thanks for the idea and thanks to the people willing to help in this matter.

Keneda

@nero355 said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

Both Apple and Google don't offer anything like that so why should Ubuntu Touch ?!

Because Ubuntu Touch community has user in sight, all kind of user, and not all kind of income ^^

We should not look at what is not done by those gafam to act ourself.

nero355

@keneda said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

@nero355 said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

Both Apple and Google don't offer anything like that so why should Ubuntu Touch ?!

Because Ubuntu Touch community has user in sight, all kind of user, and not all kind of income ^^

We should not look at what is not done by those gafam to act ourself.

True, but still : It's funny when you think about it!

doniks

@emphrath said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

Ok so do we agree here that there could be some sort of tutorial on the website that is almost the first thing you'll see ? A step by step presentation of the os and its core functionalities, with short videos interseded with short text explaining plainly how this all works, let's say, the differences and similarities with what people already know and some how tos organized in a summary, from the installation to, say, taking a screenshot (which I had to browse the forum to learn btw) ?

YES!

klh

@emphrath said in Talk to the Non-Geek People:

[...] You don't want me to touch html code

Good thing is the docs are written in reStructuredText, no HTML involved and pretty easy to write in any text editor. Or I can convert an odf/docx file for you, if you want (and make some simple diagrams if you add photos/images/doodles/descriptions).

flohack

We need more technical writers that are skilled in English language. But here is the problem:

If you are a skilled technical writer you probably work in this profession and get paid in your day job - What is the motivation to additionally continue at end of business day to do the same stuff, but this time for free?
If you aren´t a skilled technical writer you will find out that becoming one needs a lot of practise and review from others that are skilled - and they need to spend time with you - go back to item 1.

Our allover contribution problem is: We cannot pay so many people to do stuff, and the hobbyists are not able to go that deep into all of that documentation matter since it needs continuous work for weeks, not only spend a few hours on the weekend. Since - the project is changing everyday, you need to follow that pace with the documents too.

nero355

@flohack
Doing stuff for free should not be an issue for people who like this project, but getting the right information about certain things from the developers does seem to be an issue!

I have already asked multiple times if we can get a list of phones that won't be supported by the 20.04 LTS upgrade and so far no one seems to be interested in giving us such a list ?!

Because IF we had one, then I could for example edit all the details of all the phones listed @ https://devices.ubports.io and add some kind of banner of something to warn people about the future upgrade path for those phones!

Another thing that really bothers me are this kind of comments :
@lakotaubp said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 115 Is This Saturday At 19:00 UTC:

JFI WayDroid is now a totally seperate project to UBports and UT and as such is not a drain on resources.
As to whether it is good idea to run android apps on UT that is down to the individual themselves and in some cases maybe a way to avoid carrying two phones about. Don't forget in some places certain apps are all most if not already a requirement (covid ones for example). WayDroid maybe a good answer.

Why are we even talking about that kind of stuff here ?!

Someone who uses Ubuntu Touch should be someone who DOESN'T WANT that kind of apps on his phone at all either native or emulated !!!

Sometimes I have got the feeling that people just want a phone which is basically Android with a fancy skin on top!

There is even some idiot on the Jolla Sailfish Forum who actually sent an e-mail to his government and asking them for support of such apps on both Ubuntu Touch and Jolla Sailfish phones!
That's just ridiculous! :face_with_symbols_on_mouth:

I also had a good laugh reading this : https://blog.brixit.nl/do-you-really-want-linux-phones/
It's written by a PostmarketOS developer and the guy is also active on another forum where I hang around a lot : We both had a lot of fun talking about that article! :grinning_squinting_face:

TL;DR :

Which direction are we heading ?!
Is there any actualy future for Ubuntu Touch in beeing actually Ubuntu Touch with Convergence instead of just beeing another phone OS with a small marketshare and beeing able to run Android crApps ?!

Emphrath

@flohack i see your point, but I think we're talking about a different thing here. Maybe the documentation is indeed lacking as I see some prospective devs on this forum that struggle to find the info they need - but it's another matter totally. The issue here is what we show to people who want to know the daily things they can do with their os, and how they can do it. Since we, as users, have that knowledge, I don't see what prevents us from sharing that very much non-technical knowledge - the same way we would if we had to display UT possibilities to a friend or a relative