I wanna go home

dobey

Are you telling that's what launcher modular dev did?

It came out of the announcement that scopes were deprecated and would be removed. It also abused the system to replace the old dash with itself. That can't be done any more with OTA-12, as all the dash related stuff was removed.

TotalSonic

If there was an option in System Settings for "launch app(s) on startup" the people wishing the ability to have an application launcher / "home" other than the left edge quick launchers and the App Drawer - could choose something like Launcher Modular, Sprint, QML Launcher, of Simple Dash (all currently available in the Open Store) to be opened automatically right after bootup. Maybe something to consider for inclusion for say OTA-14 or after.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Keneda

@dobey said in I wanna go home:

It also abused the system to replace the old dash with itself.

What do you mean by "abuse"? Are there any unalllowed things he did?
Why this launcher's even on open store if it abuses system in a way UBports devs don't endorse?

In a hackers world, what right and what's wrong? What makes you a white one, or an "abusing" one?

It looks like you really don't like the man...

@AppLee said in I wanna go home:

I hope we can put together all the good willing people and come to something doable and acceptable for most people.

If it could be, would be great yes...

UniSuperBox

@Keneda,

To be clear, you can still use launcher-modular. It's not going away. It's still an app that can be launched on OTA-12 just as well as on OTA-11. It still has full access to your contacts, apps, and the rest of your data. So it can still do the same job. The only difference is that it doesn't launch automatically, and doesn't appear when you perform a long swipe from the left of the screen.

Yes, there is a set list of things that apps may do, and Launcher Modular goes outside of that list. It modifies system files in order to replace the unity8-dash installed on OTA-11 and earlier. unity8-dash was removed in OTA-12, so it cannot do this any more. That was never a supported method to launch an app, so it should not have been surprising when it went away. But the OpenStore does allow apps which do things like modify system files, provided they are open source and manually reviewed.

@TotalSonic, Is launching an app on startup a solution to this problem? If the app is pinned to your Launcher, that only saves one tap. I can understand the feeling of it being better, but is it really so much more efficient that we should expend the effort?

hummlbach

Are there any unalllowed things he did?
...
It looks like you really don't like the man...

Its really not about blaming jimmy or kazord or anyone! Of course we're all free to do with the system what we like to...

What do you mean by "abuse"?
...
What makes you a white one, and a "abusing" one?

"Abusing" means doing things in a way they're not meant to be done. Doing things that aren't supported. And they mostly aren't supported not because someone wants to restrict anyone or dictate what (app) devs should do, but to ensure the stability and security of the system. For example dekko, rockwork, telescope or ut tweak tool are also "abusing" the system. They are unconfined mostly (except uttt in this list) to run daemons in the background which may lead to substantial battery drain, which indeed reduces the "systems quality". Average Joe user might not know and yell at ubports while they aren't causing the problem <- bad situation...
That all doesn't mean someone doesn't like the devs of these apps...! Its just that it would actually make more sense to create the necessary APIs/features the OS is lacking than finding ways around it, punching security holes and creating instabilities. Thats what dobey isn't happy with... But it may not be clear (or even far from obvious) how the needed APIs should look like, and more work to create them instead of working around it abusing the system and not every app dev feels capable to contribute to such an API.

Why this launcher's even on open store if it abuses system in a way UBports devs don't endorse?

Because its known that there are functions missing and it takes time to get them in place, and if theres an app fulfilling some needs which currently could hardly serve its purpose without "abusing" the system is therefore accepted. (And if you allow such things it gets hard to decide where to draw the line...)

Keneda

@hummlbach

Ok i was writing a long answer and yours justed poped during that time and aswered lot of my questions or even you said what i was thinking.

So i just kept that part :
"Abusing" is a strong word i think, because it has a wicked connotation.

Anyway, i hope each one of you, core devs or not, will be able to understand each other, and work together, so we can have the best of you

TotalSonic

@UniSuperBox said in I wanna go home:

@TotalSonic, Is launching an app on startup a solution to this problem? If the app is pinned to your Launcher, that only saves one tap. I can understand the feeling of it being better, but is it really so much more efficient that we should expend the effort?

Dalton - you make a very good point. I was just trying to come up with some way of making those who are wanting "alternative launchers" to have this seemingly be more seamlessly integrated with the OS - but you are very correct that just launching a pinned app is really a just a minor inconvenience.

One thing I can add though, is that most Linux DE's allow one to set a list of apps that one can automatically launch on startup - and if Lomiri is going to ultimately end up as a more widely used DE, then this might be a feature that people will be requesting to be available in System Settings at some point in the future anyway. But I definitely can see where a ton of other feature additions need to be placed in priority well ahead of this, for sure.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

stan

if you need feedback, or taking opinion .
i don't like the absence of a gesture to take to home screen which is for me
the empty background comfortable and natural.

kugiigi

In my opinion, at this point it's not scopes versus app drawer anymore. App drawer is already coming and nothing can be done to stop it And we shouldn't see the app drawer as is and compare and list all its missing functionalities. OTA-12 is just the first step to the transition. We should focus on how to move forward with these changes and improve what we have. Just a quick thought, perhaps we can use the new app menu from the upper left for something like a HUD where you can do quick actions system-wide instead of putting everything in the app drawer.

dobey

@stan said in I wanna go home:

the empty background comfortable and natural.

I still don't understand this. If you close all apps, it is empty save for top panel and launcher. What is good about wasting battery by keeping the screen on and staring at an empty background?

dobey

@Keneda said in I wanna go home:

"Abusing" is a strong word i think, because it has a wicked connotation.

What word would you use instead? Exploit? Subvert?

It is an accurate description of what the app does, as it circumvents and modifies system behavior.

kugiigi

@dobey said in I wanna go home:

@stan said in I wanna go home:

the empty background comfortable and natural.

I still don't understand this. If you close all apps, it is empty save for top panel and launcher. What is good about wasting battery by keeping the screen on and staring at an empty background?

I think this is really just a preference. But to be fair, using a keyboard shortcut, there's a way to minimize all apps and show the desktop. So I guess it's not a bad thing to have it as well via gesture/button. Actually I was thinking of adding it in the app spread

KrishneshG

I wana go home where it is safe and where my kingdom stands

the following are suggestions and just my two cents these suggestions and comments are directed at no party or developer, i am just a android developer adding my two cents in a attempt to help UBPorts become successful. i will break my comments down in sections that are hopefully insightful and a new perspective from a outsider.

The land on which i stand
It is important to understand when we are developing a new os which has its underpinnings solidly rooted in safety and security for the end user this does not mean we must give up on past experiences and leanings which may not be our own. Innovation is not the process of a new idea but the execution of a idea in a way that makes it better then before.

for ubports what this means is do not attempt to rebuild the wheel there is a set of navigation traditions that work well and have been accepted by the mobile community and these traditions do not effect the safety and security of the device therefor we should adopt them bellow is a outline of what this could look like.

alt text

Gesture navigation has now been formalised in the mobile world these learning can be applied to ubports for a seamless transition into the OS. I would recommend we keep the left to right swipe to open the app menu as this is a uniquely ubports take on the apps menu. however we should consider a bottom to top swipe to get back to a home screen as well as a bottom to top swipe stopping in the centre to get to the currently running applications.

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meanwhile the right to left swipe currently being used for the currently running apps should serve as a back gesture. many apps have the back key all the way at the top its hard to reach at times and will continue to be this way on larger devices.

Take me to my kingdom
The home screen every os has one this space should be one that is configurable and usable for the user. we must take into account ubuntu desktop has a screen where a wallpaper can be changed as well as shortcuts can be placed. this area should be available for each user to decide what they wish to do on it and not dictated to them by the os.
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ubports != desktop in your pocket
we must remember however a mobile phone is not our desktop its purpose is not the same, therefor we must also consider how we use the device. allot of what users want to do is get information quickly at a glance and lets remember parts of what makes Linux special is the ability to customise it. we must consider implementing a way to have widgets and desktop apps on the main screen this dose not make us a lesser os just because others have also done it it makes this product a viable alternative with all the benefits of a safety and privacy respecting os.

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dobey

@KrishneshG said in I wanna go home:

we must remember however a mobile phone is not our desktop its purpose is not the same, therefor we must also consider how we use the device.

This is not quite true. Actually with Ubuntu Touch (and with Android 10+), when you connect the phone to an external display, mouse, and keyboard, either wired or with Miracast adapter, you get a more traditional windowed layout, and legacy apps can become useful through the Libertine container support.

Simply because you personally don't use something, or that you aren't aware of a capability of the OS, doesn't mean others use it or it doesn't or shouldn't exist.

Keneda

@dobey said in I wanna go home:

Simply because you personally don't use something, or that you aren't aware of a capability of the OS, doesn't mean others use it or it doesn't or shouldn't exist.

You can apply this to home/desktop like feature on uTouch

dobey

@Keneda If we had infinite teams of infinite monkeys working on the project, then we could have every possible bit be configurable to satisfy every infinite person.

IMO, there are much more important problems to solve with UT, to make it usable. Also, the goal of UT isn't to have configurable things for every possibility and every user. It's to make informed and opinionated decisions on the design aspect to build something different and better suited for converged usage. It's understandable that people find something new and don't know how to react. But posting screenshots of GNOME (which by the way, does not have a home screen, and in fact no longer has icons on background), random Android manufacturer gesture configs, or random things from behance posts, isn't the best way to get a point across, nor will it solve anything, especially when there is no clear connection between said screenshots and the text in the post.

That means every pet feature that anyone wants to see may not be suitable, and may end up not being included, because it conflicts with those design goals.

enrolado

Mobile UI isn't an easy problem to solve, which is why you're seeing some many - often conflicting - positions and requests. I have only been involved since the covid outbreak, and was able to daily-drive both options. My preference: the drawer. That said, there are positives from the other option as well.

I do believe, however, that my mobile phone shouldn't necessarily have the same interface and interaction as my desktop.

Pulsar33

Hello
Just a simple remainder :
Feature Request : slide-show background #1359
Best Regards
Pulsar33

Keneda

Here is a new home to experiment, thanks to Pavel Prosto.
https://open-store.io/app/uhome.pavelprosto

kingu

When these "modern" OS-es start, the clean desktop is shown,
meaning the user knows it is there, and for some reason the starting state is off limits if there is one or more programs open.

elementaryOS also does this.
Even the keyboard shortcut to show the desktop is removed.
The section isn't even there anymore.

Would be interesting to see what kind of problems people think they are solving by implementing this.

It is 100% against convention of anyone touching a computer or device the last 30 years.
The upside seems to be not accidentally minimizing something you are working on.

It is also not how the system the user is familiar with and is using has functioned in the past. For my own sake I will say this makes me think of something I know I can use, into something where I think I can't figure it out and no change was needed.
And no, it just isn't possible anymore. No explanation.

The mind compartmentalizes information in structural hierarchies, and the spatial awareness to keep track of this is something you can do with cognition, but the ability to look at a clean slate actually has function.
It is the closest thing you get to seeing where your files are by default.

Yes, that place someone decided no files are to be shown,
before they decided file hierarchy is something the user shouldn't do.

There is a serenity to having just a clean slate to go back to.
It is as familiar, and not having what you are doing visible on the screen is useful.

It also has the benefit of vested interest and familiarity in that the user often changes the desktop. Thus making it their machine.