PineTab

libremax

@PINE64 May I know which unit version did Marius use in the demo video? Is it the dev version with 1GB of RAM?

Yes, Lukasz said that on twitter.

PINE64

@Loops - I think that production PineTabs will be available in less time than production PinePhones due to the lower complexity of the device, yes. It may in fact be the case that this PCBA revision is final - we don't know this yet however. Regardless, small tweaks for efficiency or aesthetics are likely to follow in future batches.

@kugiigi - Marius was using a (terribly crude and hand assembled) ~~1GB dev version of the Tablet in the video~~ [edit] 2GB version. I also believe that his demo ran from a SD card and not internal eMMC flash. Answering your implicit question: you can expect the production version to run slightly better due to more RAM + running from eMMC

kugiigi

@PINE64 Yes, that's actually what I'm going to say. if it only has 1GB of RAM then the demo video becomes much more impressive. I did not see serious slow downs and not even crashes on it. I would expect something like that would have happened on a bq E5 which also has 1 GB of RAM

PINE64

@kugiigi ... also do keep in mind these are Lima GPU drivers, under constant development. There are also tweaks to be made to other components and their kernel / dts settings. The PineTab will never be a speed-demon, but will ultimately perform (much) better than shown in the video.

Keneda

@kugiigi said in PineTab Anyone?:

Yeah, I think it's unfair to expect Pine64 to provide wide variation/configuration on their products.

It's only a keyboard layout dude...
We, unfair people, are even willing to pay an extra (i.e 20 box) for having this.

And such unfair option can be achieved in a simple way like making blank keyboards pine devices, and then printing the final layout in pine64 facilities, or even, like mentionned before, a good quality sticker layout.

AppLee

@Keneda said in PineTab Anyone?:

And such unfair option can be achieved

No need to be rude and imply things.
We all get your point but you don't know the specifics. So if @PINE64 tells that it costs and is not a deal breaker for most people you'll have to trust it.

@poVoq made a suggestion and depending on Pine64's answer to that you'll have to find a sticker pack or deal with a qwerty keyboard.

Please don't make it personal, I know English is not your native language and maybe things got lost in translation, but watch your tone.

kugiigi

@Keneda I'm not int he business so I can't really say how simple it is but they already mentioned the reasons here and I believe them so in my understanding, it's not simple.

trainailleur

The internet is full of businesses selling keyboard sticker packs for alternative languages and layouts. I don't see any reason why Pine64 should need to take on distraction of doing this.

Yes, it's nice to have a keyboard that is printed with one's preferred layout, but Pine64 is a small company who must maintain a streamlined product lineup in order to turn a profit.

PINE64

For the PBP we have considered both key cap stickers and empty keyboards which users could populate according to their need (the controller is open sourced, so you can program it to do whatever you wish). Not completely sure if either is really feasible with Pinetab keyboard ... would have to check.

Regardless, on a fundamental level the problem with both options is user-error and subsequent support nightmare for us. This is in general why we refrain from e.g. selling a PinePhone DIY kit ... we know people want to do DIY stuff, and I fully understand why it would be 'fun' to do this sort of stuff, but we also know that if end-users mess something up during assembly, we'll end up drowning in support tickets. Keyboard sticker sets and really delicate cap-hinges seem like something that will break frequently.

... You are welcome to try to convince me otherwise of course.

ToxyPoxy

I will definitely be getting this one, will it have the UB Touch logo?
Why bother with having a back camera? I would just like them to put the 5MP camera in the front and forget about the back camera.

AppLee

@ToxyPoxy
You made me laugh

I don't know if you were serious or not.
But people usually use the back camera more...

IMO tablets shouldn't have camera because it's not a way to take photos and because selfies should be illegal.
But people want them because they are used to have them and some might find it useful in some situation.

ToxyPoxy

@AppLee
Hehe I was dead serious
I have never understood using a tablet for taking photos but you are probably right about this one. I would only be using the front camera for video calls, selfies not so much

PhoenixLandPirat

@AppLee said in PineTab Anyone?:

But people usually use the back camera more...

On a Tablet?

I don't think most people go around taking photos with there tablets, I think people want better front cameras, because on a tablet you're more likely to use it, when you're video calling family or friends, you know.

AppLee

@PhoenixLandPirat
Have you ever been in an overcrowded touristic spot ?
You'll see buses with a lot of old tourists and as unhealthy as it is elders love tablets to take pictures.

They like it because they can see what they are shooting at and that is something I learned from an elder person next to me at grand canyon.

But I tend to agree with you regarding the prospects for the PineTab, but if some of you are like me you might want to purchase one for your old people so you can troubleshoot them more easily than with an Android tablet, so ...

poVoq

@PINE64 said in PineTab Anyone?:

For the PBP we have considered both key cap stickers and empty keyboards which users could populate according to their need (the controller is open sourced, so you can program it to do whatever you wish). Not completely sure if either is really feasible with Pinetab keyboard ... would have to check.

Regardless, on a fundamental level the problem with both options is user-error and subsequent support nightmare for us. This is in general why we refrain from e.g. selling a PinePhone DIY kit ... we know people want to do DIY stuff, and I fully understand why it would be 'fun' to do this sort of stuff, but we also know that if end-users mess something up during assembly, we'll end up drowning in support tickets. Keyboard sticker sets and really delicate cap-hinges seem like something that will break frequently.

... You are welcome to try to convince me otherwise of course.

There are also these silicone protective covers that come with different key layouts. No glue or assebmbly required as they just lay on top of the keyboard.
But you would probably need a custom made one as it has to fit the keyboard exactly.
But these are also nice to keep the keyboard clean...

PINE64

@poVoq Those silicone covers are usually absolutely terrible however.

Keneda

@PINE64 said in PineTab Anyone?:

@poVoq Those silicone covers are usually absolutely terrible however.

Yes they are. Stickers are the limit, good quality ones.
As i said, i think an extra cost for good keyboard layout solution for other countries would not be a problem for people like me.

Sorry guys and @AppLee if being qualified as unfair made me sensitive.

AppLee

@Keneda said in PineTab Anyone?:

being qualified as unfair made me sensitive.

I don't think it was the case.
What was qualified unfair was the request, not you.

@PINE64 is taking feedback from the community into account. But it's unfair to abuse it by insisting on something already answered. I imagine you don't ask your bank for an UT app arguing they might loose a lot of customers.
What is unfair is acting like this with a company that's kind enough to listen and take time to answer our questions/suggestions/(even complaints).

We are all enthusiastic about these projects and we can be sensitive or eager to react promptly.
But let's keep a cool head.

potet

Another quick keyboard-related question, since layouts are being discussed:

Can the keys be moved around with relative ease by the user, or is it one of those keyboards where removing a key is likely to break the mechanism?

Dvorak user with Æ, Ø and Å here. I'm fine with a keyboard not being 100% correct (J and F will never happen), but I enjoy having a majority of buttons in the right spot.

Not a deal breaker though, especially not if the keyboard is otherwise comfortable. Really excited to see how this develops.

Keneda

@AppLee said in PineTab Anyone?:

What was qualified unfair was the request, not you.

I made the request... So if it's unfair asking, i'm unfair asking.

it's unfair to abuse it by insisting on something already answered. I imagine you don't ask your bank for an UT app arguing they might loose a lot of customers.

I was not "insisting", just arguing in a second post.
I don't ask my bank an app because i can access its website with webbrowser and i don't like webapps, i like webbrowsers that let me access all websites.
And it's not relevant to compare with banking, billions of customers and so few that have UT as OS.
Here is thousand of customers or potential ones where lot, if not most, of them are not english, and only 2 layouts, US ANSI and US ISO...

What is unfair is acting like this with a company that's kind enough to listen and take time to answer our questions/suggestions/(even complaints).

Acting like making a request and arguing a point is not unfair, at least i though it wasn't between grown people.

But let's keep a cool head.