PineTab

Keneda

Yeah, I think it's unfair to expect Pine64 to provide wide variation/configuration on their products.

It's only a keyboard layout dude...
We, unfair people, are even willing to pay an extra (i.e 20 box) for having this.

And such unfair option can be achieved in a simple way like making blank keyboards pine devices, and then printing the final layout in pine64 facilities, or even, like mentionned before, a good quality sticker layout.

AppLee

@Keneda said in PineTab Anyone?:

And such unfair option can be achieved

No need to be rude and imply things.
We all get your point but you don't know the specifics. So if @PINE64 tells that it costs and is not a deal breaker for most people you'll have to trust it.

@poVoq made a suggestion and depending on Pine64's answer to that you'll have to find a sticker pack or deal with a qwerty keyboard.

Please don't make it personal, I know English is not your native language and maybe things got lost in translation, but watch your tone.

kugiigi

@Keneda I'm not int he business so I can't really say how simple it is but they already mentioned the reasons here and I believe them so in my understanding, it's not simple.

trainailleur

The internet is full of businesses selling keyboard sticker packs for alternative languages and layouts. I don't see any reason why Pine64 should need to take on distraction of doing this.

Yes, it's nice to have a keyboard that is printed with one's preferred layout, but Pine64 is a small company who must maintain a streamlined product lineup in order to turn a profit.

PINE64

For the PBP we have considered both key cap stickers and empty keyboards which users could populate according to their need (the controller is open sourced, so you can program it to do whatever you wish). Not completely sure if either is really feasible with Pinetab keyboard ... would have to check.

Regardless, on a fundamental level the problem with both options is user-error and subsequent support nightmare for us. This is in general why we refrain from e.g. selling a PinePhone DIY kit ... we know people want to do DIY stuff, and I fully understand why it would be 'fun' to do this sort of stuff, but we also know that if end-users mess something up during assembly, we'll end up drowning in support tickets. Keyboard sticker sets and really delicate cap-hinges seem like something that will break frequently.

... You are welcome to try to convince me otherwise of course.

ToxyPoxy

I will definitely be getting this one, will it have the UB Touch logo?
Why bother with having a back camera? I would just like them to put the 5MP camera in the front and forget about the back camera.

AppLee

@ToxyPoxy
You made me laugh

I don't know if you were serious or not.
But people usually use the back camera more...

IMO tablets shouldn't have camera because it's not a way to take photos and because selfies should be illegal.
But people want them because they are used to have them and some might find it useful in some situation.

ToxyPoxy

@AppLee
Hehe I was dead serious
I have never understood using a tablet for taking photos but you are probably right about this one. I would only be using the front camera for video calls, selfies not so much

PhoenixLandPirat

@AppLee said in PineTab Anyone?:

But people usually use the back camera more...

On a Tablet?

I don't think most people go around taking photos with there tablets, I think people want better front cameras, because on a tablet you're more likely to use it, when you're video calling family or friends, you know.

AppLee

@PhoenixLandPirat
Have you ever been in an overcrowded touristic spot ?
You'll see buses with a lot of old tourists and as unhealthy as it is elders love tablets to take pictures.

They like it because they can see what they are shooting at and that is something I learned from an elder person next to me at grand canyon.

But I tend to agree with you regarding the prospects for the PineTab, but if some of you are like me you might want to purchase one for your old people so you can troubleshoot them more easily than with an Android tablet, so ...

poVoq

@PINE64 said in PineTab Anyone?:

For the PBP we have considered both key cap stickers and empty keyboards which users could populate according to their need (the controller is open sourced, so you can program it to do whatever you wish). Not completely sure if either is really feasible with Pinetab keyboard ... would have to check.

Regardless, on a fundamental level the problem with both options is user-error and subsequent support nightmare for us. This is in general why we refrain from e.g. selling a PinePhone DIY kit ... we know people want to do DIY stuff, and I fully understand why it would be 'fun' to do this sort of stuff, but we also know that if end-users mess something up during assembly, we'll end up drowning in support tickets. Keyboard sticker sets and really delicate cap-hinges seem like something that will break frequently.

... You are welcome to try to convince me otherwise of course.

There are also these silicone protective covers that come with different key layouts. No glue or assebmbly required as they just lay on top of the keyboard.
But you would probably need a custom made one as it has to fit the keyboard exactly.
But these are also nice to keep the keyboard clean...

PINE64

@poVoq Those silicone covers are usually absolutely terrible however.

Keneda

@PINE64 said in PineTab Anyone?:

@poVoq Those silicone covers are usually absolutely terrible however.

Yes they are. Stickers are the limit, good quality ones.
As i said, i think an extra cost for good keyboard layout solution for other countries would not be a problem for people like me.

Sorry guys and @AppLee if being qualified as unfair made me sensitive.

AppLee

@Keneda said in PineTab Anyone?:

being qualified as unfair made me sensitive.

I don't think it was the case.
What was qualified unfair was the request, not you.

@PINE64 is taking feedback from the community into account. But it's unfair to abuse it by insisting on something already answered. I imagine you don't ask your bank for an UT app arguing they might loose a lot of customers.
What is unfair is acting like this with a company that's kind enough to listen and take time to answer our questions/suggestions/(even complaints).

We are all enthusiastic about these projects and we can be sensitive or eager to react promptly.
But let's keep a cool head.

potet

Another quick keyboard-related question, since layouts are being discussed:

Can the keys be moved around with relative ease by the user, or is it one of those keyboards where removing a key is likely to break the mechanism?

Dvorak user with Æ, Ø and Å here. I'm fine with a keyboard not being 100% correct (J and F will never happen), but I enjoy having a majority of buttons in the right spot.

Not a deal breaker though, especially not if the keyboard is otherwise comfortable. Really excited to see how this develops.

Keneda

@AppLee said in PineTab Anyone?:

What was qualified unfair was the request, not you.

I made the request... So if it's unfair asking, i'm unfair asking.

it's unfair to abuse it by insisting on something already answered. I imagine you don't ask your bank for an UT app arguing they might loose a lot of customers.

I was not "insisting", just arguing in a second post.
I don't ask my bank an app because i can access its website with webbrowser and i don't like webapps, i like webbrowsers that let me access all websites.
And it's not relevant to compare with banking, billions of customers and so few that have UT as OS.
Here is thousand of customers or potential ones where lot, if not most, of them are not english, and only 2 layouts, US ANSI and US ISO...

What is unfair is acting like this with a company that's kind enough to listen and take time to answer our questions/suggestions/(even complaints).

Acting like making a request and arguing a point is not unfair, at least i though it wasn't between grown people.

But let's keep a cool head.

potet

@Keneda Not directly related, but AppLee had a point about things getting lost in translation - the English language is a bit of a mine field for politeness, especially maybe when coming from French. Anglophones tend to be less direct about things, and while your comments seem fine if I translate them to French, they do come across as a bit aggressive in English.

As a non-native speaker myself, I have just kind of accepted that I need to try my best to be overly polite and indirect whenever communicating in English. It's a bit of a hassle, but it's generally worth it.

Keneda

@potet said in PineTab Anyone?:

Anglophones tend to be less direct about things, and while your comments seem fine if I translate them to French, they do come across as a bit aggressive in English.

I can speak english but i can't think english
However i'll try at least.

PhoenixLandPirat

@potet said in PineTab Anyone?:

@Keneda Not directly related, but AppLee had a point about things getting lost in translation - the English language is a bit of a mine field for politeness, especially maybe when coming from French. Anglophones tend to be less direct about things, and while your comments seem fine if I translate them to French, they do come across as a bit aggressive in English.

Thanks for this, I often see things worded in a more direct manner, than just go, "well I'm just gonna turn my back now" or can be somewhat aggressive back, and I know that's not a good trait, and I try to occasionally just turn a blind eye, but sometimes it just gets to me.

Having the context of, "Sorry this sounds fine in my native language, but theirs some lost in translation" makes things a lot easier to digest and understand, and helps prevent aggravated arguing that needn't take place, so thank you

Lakotaubp

As a native English speaker I have learnt to take this into account very much in my time on the Forum. What can often seem a very blunt slightly confrontational comment in English is 99% of the time down to the second language/translation thing and most definitely not intended to be so.
Whether it affects us directly or not things are a bit more of a struggle right now for everyone, so let's try and remember that as well.
We are all here for one reason, hopefully, to help make UT the best OS it can possibly be and help others along the way and that is always best done in a polite and friendly manner.