I've been dithering and hesitating to give Ubuntu Touch a spin for months, and the obscene Google monopoly's decision to kill off deGoogled ROMs and open-source repos finally pushed me over the edge.

I've ordered a Fairphone 5, onto which I'll install Ubuntu Touch, and hopefully I will make it my new daily driver. For the things I need that don't exist in the OpenStore, I intend to start developing for Ubuntu Touch.

I suppose it had to happen one day. Google made it today. Wish me luck

@wgarcia said in Nordea ID banking app question in Ubuntu Touch on Fairphone 4:

@O.o. The camera in waydroid, as far as I know, works in all UT devices where waydroid works.

I use it in a FP5 with the Pleko app (Chinese) for OCR on Chinese characters, and I have used it to scan QR codes to login into streaming services. So I think it should work in the FP4.

But if the app has controls against rooting or any other of those filters, then the app will not work in waydroid. If you say that it works in your desktop, it should work, unless those filters jump in when you try to validate with your camera.

Good info, thanks!

The Nordea ID banking app work in my Waydroid - with MicroG - and it also works on my rooted Nokia 4.2 running LineageOS. So I don't think it's that clever when it comes to detecting something fishy. At least not yet. But like I said, I read some users stating that it did get pissy in Sailfish.

But anyway, since I know it's likely to work and you know it's likely to be able to use the camera, I think I'll backup all my data this weekend and I'll try installing Ubuntu Touch. Or maybe I should find a second-hand phone to mess around with UT and/or possibly with different Linux distros without risking ruining my perfectly functional FP4

@Vlad-Nirky Thanks! But I have plenty of experience installing and configuring deGoogled Android ROMs, as well as Waydroid itself. And like I said, my banking app does work in Waydroid already, on my desktop, without even installing MicroG. So unless there's something funky in UT's Wayland, it should work just fine there too.

I'm more concerned about all the other little things I might lose in UT - even silly creature comforts like the Swype-like OpenBoard keyboard in Android: I really, REALLY don't want to go back to hunting and pecking an on-screen keyboard, but it's most likely what I'll have to do in UT.

Or my Yubikey-like NFC authenticator: I use that thing all the time in Android, and I'm 200% it doesn't exist in UT. So I'm gonna have to port it myself, or - if I'm lucky - I might be able to run the desktop GTK equivalent I made myself in Libertine.

Maybe... I have no idea where I'm going with all of this, and I won't know until I try it. Hence my taking the plunge

Currently, tapping on an Android app icon in the UT menu results in Waydroid spinning up, LineageOS booting up and the app starting "rootless" so-to-speak (meaning you can't escape out of the app to the underlying LineageOS home screen). Then when you swipe the screen out in UT, it kills Waydroid.

But there are two problems with that approach:

• If one Android app is running, you can't start another. You have to kill the container to redo the whole rigmarole with the new app.
• I need to run Molly (Signal fork) permanently in the background, and also the Chargie app for my charge limiter. That means I have to keep one of them up (not both) and be very, very careful not to close it. And then I can't use anything else while it's running.

Would there be a way to modify how Waydroid work and make it start the container empty at startup time, then spawn apps in it from the UT menu - and when the app is swiped away, it kills the app, not the entire container.

Side question - related to this problem, but not just: is there a way to keep an app running silently in the background and hide its window without stopping it?

The Fairphone 5 has arrived, and UT is now installed on it. Here are my first impresions / comments - I'll write them here before I forget, perhaps I'll use this thread to log the things I noticed as a newbie with zero experience:

• Bootloader unlocking: good thing I knew it's not the same as OEM unlocking. The installer isn't super-clear on that. I would have expected it to unlock it itself, but nope: I had to do it myself. No biggie, just a bit confusing if you don't know how this goes.

• My biggest hurdle: I had to dig out my old amd64 laptop because there's no arm64 version of the installer - and no, I'm not compiling this things from scratch

• I upgraded Linux Mint on the old laptop. Then I tried to install the .deb. which complained about missing Android packages. So I gave up and used the Appimage, which worked flawlessly.

• Confusingly, the UT installation webpage recommends I install -stable, but the installer defaults on -daily. I installed -stable, assuming I can change channel later if I desperately have to - which I probably won't do because I'm a dull old man and I know better

• The installation was remarkably smooth. I thought CalyxOS was smooth, but the Ubuntu Touch installer is on another level. I basically watched it do its thing. Congrats guys!

• Once installed, I poked around in it. The few immediate issues I noticed are:

  • The whole screen area is used, including crucially the corners and the camera. That means I can't set the time in military format because I can't see the minutes. I have to stick to AM/PM. And whatever mini-icon is under the camera is anybody's guess.

• The keyboard has vibration enabled, but there's also a Sounds → Other sounds → Other vibrations setting which, if you don't know it's enables, causes you to think the keyboard vibration thing doesn't turn off correctly. Quite confusing.

• As I expected, the keyboard is hunt-and-peck. No swiping. That's a big quality of life downgrade for me compared to Android.

• The font size is borderline too small for this pair of gen-X eyes. I haven't found a font size setting. I hope there's one hidden somewhere because it's a bit of a strain.

• I managed to import my CalDAV calendar without any issue. Neat!

• I wasn't able to import my VPN's .ovpn file, but I see it's not supported in the stock UT install. That's what I'm working on right now, that I took a break from to dump my first impressions before I forget

Other than that, it looks pretty slick and polished. Nice job!

Stay tuned, as I gain more experience with this thing. I will report back here.

I ran into a problem with file transfer over USB3. When I connect the Fairphone 5, this shows up in my PC's kernel log:

[ 7021.731622] usb 8-1.2: new SuperSpeed USB device number 15 using xhci-hcd
[ 7021.748493] usb 8-1.2: LPM exit latency is zeroed, disabling LPM.
[ 7021.748928] usb 8-1.2: No SuperSpeed endpoint companion for config 1  interface 0 altsetting 0 ep 129: using minimum values
[ 7021.748946] usb 8-1.2: No SuperSpeed endpoint companion for config 1  interface 0 altsetting 0 ep 1: using minimum values
[ 7021.748960] usb 8-1.2: No SuperSpeed endpoint companion for config 1  interface 0 altsetting 0 ep 130: using minimum values
[ 7021.749739] usb 8-1.2: New USB device found, idVendor=05c6, idProduct=903a, bcdDevice= 5.04
[ 7021.749756] usb 8-1.2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[ 7021.749769] usb 8-1.2: Product: FP5
[ 7021.749779] usb 8-1.2: Manufacturer: Fairphone
[ 7021.749788] usb 8-1.2: SerialNumber: xxxxxxxx
[ 7021.750457] xhci-hcd xhci-hcd.5.auto: ERROR: unexpected command completion code 0x11.
[ 7021.855593] usb 8-1.2: can't set config #1, error -22
[ 7258.691000] usb 8-1.2: USB disconnect, device number 15

However, when I connect it as a USB2 device, no problem:

[ 7269.226773] usb 1-1.2: new high-speed USB device number 6 using ehci-platform
[ 7269.327363] usb 1-1.2: New USB device found, idVendor=05c6, idProduct=903a, bcdDevice= 5.04
[ 7269.327387] usb 1-1.2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[ 7269.327399] usb 1-1.2: Product: FP5
[ 7269.327408] usb 1-1.2: Manufacturer: Fairphone
[ 7269.327418] usb 1-1.2: SerialNumber: xxxxxxxx

I'm still investigating what causes this.

@gpatel-fr Yes, Molly is what I got going on now. It works fine, but it has two drawbacks:

• I have to be super-careful not to stop the Waydroid container

• When the container is minimized / phone is locked and a message arrives, the ping sound doesn't play properly: it gets chopped up in itty-bitty broken pieces that play with a worrying crackling sound. If two or three messages arrive in a row, the phone crackles and beeps for several minutes. Really annoying.

@Rondarius I am aware of this - very creative I must say - solution. But it's not gonna fly: we mostly share audio and video snippets.

You know, kind of like if my wife tells me "Can you swing by the grocery store to grab this-or-that?" while in the car (so not typing, but with a quick audio thing). Then while I'm here, I don't know what to choose so I'll shoot a picture of the shelf and ask her to choose what she wants... That sort of thing. Matrix just can't do that.

I realize I can run the Matrix thing just to get notified that I got a message, then fire up the true Signal app in Waydroid. But... Hella Rube Goldberg, all that.

So I figured I'd try Sailfish OS and Whisperfish. I'm 90% sure Whisperfish will be disappointing in some way or other, but since I procured this phone for the express purpose of evaluating different Linux phone solutions, that's what I'll do. I'm not losing anything:

I don't actually use it as my main phone yet, it really is still just to mess around with mobile Linux OSes at this point. So why not.

Okay so I've messed around with Ubuntu Touch for a while on my Fairphone 5, and while I'm generally impressed, it's not quite there yet for me. Mainly I can't live without Signal. That's how my entire family and more than a few friends stay in touch, and not having it on my phone is just not gonna do it for me.

So now I want to give Sailfish OS a spin. That's why I bought that Fairphone 5 for after all - to evaluate mobile Linux OSes

The process to install Sailfish OS seems straightforward enough. But returning to Ubuntu Touch isn't: before I waste Ubuntu Touch, what's the correct way to go about reinstalling it? Or better, can I back up my current installation and reinstall it verbatim later?

@kugiigi said in Can I change how Waydroid works?:

So the best way to use Waydroid, for now, is to open Waydroid with the Waydroid app icon and use it like an Android phone in a window.

Okay thanks for the heads-up!

Yeah that's kind of what I do right now. But it's dicey because I have to remember not to swipe the Waydroid window out.

Also, it feels a bit like a defeat: I'm trying to get away from Android, and what I end up doing is running Android in a UT sandbox to get the apps I need going. At this point, I reasonably ask myself what the point of the UT middleware is at all: I might as well run LineageOS directly.

Also, I'm trying to prepare for next year when effing Google effectively kills sideloading and F-Droid, and relying on a LineageOS VM and Android apps doesn't move me any further away from that particular problem.

Hmm...

Currently, tapping on an Android app icon in the UT menu results in Waydroid spinning up, LineageOS booting up and the app starting "rootless" so-to-speak (meaning you can't escape out of the app to the underlying LineageOS home screen). Then when you swipe the screen out in UT, it kills Waydroid.

But there are two problems with that approach:

• If one Android app is running, you can't start another. You have to kill the container to redo the whole rigmarole with the new app.
• I need to run Molly (Signal fork) permanently in the background, and also the Chargie app for my charge limiter. That means I have to keep one of them up (not both) and be very, very careful not to close it. And then I can't use anything else while it's running.

Would there be a way to modify how Waydroid work and make it start the container empty at startup time, then spawn apps in it from the UT menu - and when the app is swiped away, it kills the app, not the entire container.

Side question - related to this problem, but not just: is there a way to keep an app running silently in the background and hide its window without stopping it?

@pparent said in Taking the plunge:

It's aslo the banks that edit passports?

I'm not sure. I live here but this is not my country.

Banks handle secure identification for just about anybody else here though - government website, justice, healthcare, DMV, post office, insurance companies, utilities...everything.

It never fails to blow my mind that the locals are okay with private financial institutions basically spying on your every important moves online - the ones where you have to use your real identity: if you have business with anything or anyone in an official capacity, they know whom you deal with and when.

But at least one of my colleagues got a painful reminder: he tried to get a loan to buy a new house and his application was declined for no reason that seemed to make sense, since he never missed a payment or got so much as a parking ticket.

After some digging around with a friend who worked at the bank, it turned out the bank figured he had a drinking problem based on appointments he made online with his identity at the local equivalent of the AA and classified him as a potentially delinquent wino.

And another thing that blows my mind is: it doesn't seem to bother any of the local politicians that the entire life of the country - since most everything is done online here - is entirely dependent on two foreign mobile OS vendors operating in a fascist country, with a history of abusive monopolistic practices and privacy invasion. Because I guarantee you, if the local banks know what you're doing here, Google and Apple do too.

If this was my country, I'd be distressed that those two companies are the virtual gatekeepers of the entire communication infrastructure of the country. It's totally nuts if you think about it.

Well, I tried creating a Libertine container and installing signal-desktop / arm64 in it: the icon showed up in the app drawer but it didn't do anything.

Then I rebooted the phone, just in case it needed rebooting or something and... bricked: it started loop-rebooting. Damn

But by sheer luck - not sure whether I got lucky or if it bypassed something because I was keeping the power button pressed at the right time maybe - it restarted long enough for me to kill the container. So it's not bricked no more, but it was close.

That was underwhelming...

@gpatel-fr said in Taking the plunge:

One thing I have seen on a blog is bothering me a bit:

I've just tried shooting video with the FP5. The autofocus seems to work. It's very snappy when focusing on far objects, and seems to hesitate a bit when switching to very near objects coming suddenly into view (my hand) but that might be because of low-lighting conditions. I'm not sure if the FP5 uses a time-of-flight sensor.

Anyway, I'm not a professional videographer, I'm generally easily pleased with passable tech, and this is just one quick test. I'll know for sure whether it's annoying in the long run. But at least so far it doesn't seem remotely as terrible as the post you linked to seems to suggest. Maybe the author had a bad device or something...

@pparent said in Taking the plunge:

in Europe legally banks have to offer an alternative for online payments and double authentication

I have tne alternative from my bank - a little standalone button-battery-powered TOTP doohickey with a terrible keypad. It works.

It works. But here's the thing: it's totally inconvenient, and I have to carry the damn thing separately, when I have a fully-fledged computer in my pocket that can authenticate me automatically over the internet.

Big tech doesn't get you to cave in and use their spyware by taking choices away from you, just by making the choices you prefer a lot more inconvenient to use.

@pparent said in Taking the plunge:

There are solutions based on SMS for every payment

SMS-based authentication is a terrible idea. There are few things more insecure than SMS.

Where I live, authentication online is delegated to banks. It's a complete privacy nightmare: whenever you go to any website that needs to authenticate you - social security, healthcare, your employer... anything, your bank know who and when.

You can get SMS authentication if you don't want to let your bank handle authentication - and you even pay extra for the privilege - but I'll never do it: as much as I hate my bank knowing all the 3rd party servers I authenticate with all the time, at least it's secure.

@Moem said in Taking the plunge:

You and me both! This is how I tackled that problem.
https://forums.ubports.com/topic/10819/

That's creative!

It's also rather underwhelming that one has to jump through that many hoops. You'd think the Signal Foundation would offer a version of Signal for Linux phones - especially since it's just an Electron app...

I'll investigate if the desktop version can be installed on UT somehow. If not, I'll try your solution. And if that doesn't do it, this might be the deal-breaker for me: I really need Signal. This is what my entire family stays in touch with every day.