PineTab

[PINE64]

@Keneda @domubpkm Other keyboard layouts may be possible at some point in the future, but not currently I'm afraid.

@Loops The A64 SOC only supports up-to 3GB LPDDR3 RAM. An increase over 2GB RAM would require us to use a 4GB LPDDR3 RAM module (there are no odd-number modules), which would be rather expensive and increase the price of the device for a relatively low performance/ usability gain. Even high(er) end SOCs in our lineup - such as the RK3399 - support a maximum of 4GB LPDDR4 RAM. In general, SOCs that support 6+ GB of RAM are not open-sourced and run Android kernels + blobs.

[Keneda]

@PINE64 said in PineTab Anyone?:

@Keneda @domubpkm Other keyboard layouts may be possible at some point in the future, but not currently I'm afraid.

User not being able to write with his native language is quite a huge issue. What you're doing with open source hardware is a really good thing, but you're way to much english language only friendly.
I think you loose hundred, if not thousand, of sales just with a keyboard layout issue.

[rocket2nfinity]

@PINE64 The Braveheart Pinephone had some pin wiring problems that required a revision of the board for the community edition. Since you've had more time to fiddle and observe potential problems with the Pinetab, do you expect similar issues, or are you reasonably confident that any hardware problems are all worked out?

[domubpkm]

@PINE64 I understand that azerty keyboard has to be bearable from the point of view of your costs, but in any case, every current french-speaking potential customer says: Alas !!

[Keneda]

@domubpkm
That's not only azerty... Think about Japanese or Chineses, russians, arabics, and so on...

[PINE64]

@rocket2nfinity we can't obviously rule out with complete certainty the possibility of some issue on an early hardware iteration, but I since the PineTab is somewhat simpler device than the PinePhone, the chance of a serious HW issue is slim-to-none.

Quick word about BH PinePhone errata in the context of your question - most of the errata listed on our wiki are poor or non-ideal hardware implementations rather than fundamental design flaws. If they weren't made public (as is the case for most traditional HW manufacturers) then 95% of users wouldn't even be aware there is a 'problem'. All of the errata will be worked-around in software.

@Keneda @domubpkm We may consider doing one-of alternate Latin-alphabet layout batches (e.g. once a year for a particular month) if it turns out the PineTab is highly sought after. As for other languages, it is unlikely it will happen. You need to understand that 1) making keyboard layouts costs money; 2) having multiple SKUs adds to the complexity of storing and shipping; 3) keeping stock at a warehouse costs money (because as much as you want these keyboard layouts, they wont be popular nor sell a lot of units... trust me, we know) - so we'd have to produce one-of batches anyways and keep stock; 4) the first three points combined would result in a potentially significant price-bump of the device to cover the costs.

[poVoq]

@Keneda Most other countries are used to non-localized keyboards and the difference isn't so big in many cases.

But when I had the missfortune of having to deal with an AZERTY keyboard as a work laptop, I got a nice QWERTY sticker-pack to glue on the keys. Maybe that is something to consider @PINE64 ? Testing a few sticker-packs and selling the best fitting one on the shop?

[A Former User]

@PINE64 Thanks for clarifying. Another quick question if I may? With this first run being an "early adopter" edition, and the PineTab being less complex than the PinePhone, will the community edition roll around sooner than it did with the PinePhone ommunity edition? Is there an approximate ETA?

Thanks.

[rocket2nfinity]

@PINE64 That's good to know, and wasn't meant to be a criticism, just a technical question. Happily awaiting the order window to open.

You can sign me up for a Pinetab Pro if you decide to do one. I have an RK3399 Chrome Tablet that works really nice. But I'd much rather have one made by Pine64.

[domubpkm]

@PINE64 Thank you for the information. I'm sure you'll do your best.
Any upgrade of choice will be welcome.

[kugiigi]

Yeah, I think it's unfair to expect Pine64 to provide wide variation/configuration on their products. They're not big of a company and actually donates some of their profits to other projects. Anyway, to me keyboard layout is not a big deal because I'm used to use English layout anyway But hey, I'm using a German layout keyboard right now, my work laptop, and I'm using it fine in English mode

@PINE64 May I know which unit version did Marius use in the demo video? Is it the dev version with 1GB of RAM?

[libremax]

@kugiigi said in PineTab Anyone?:

@PINE64 May I know which unit version did Marius use in the demo video? Is it the dev version with 1GB of RAM?

Yes, Lukasz said that on twitter.

[PINE64]

@Loops - I think that production PineTabs will be available in less time than production PinePhones due to the lower complexity of the device, yes. It may in fact be the case that this PCBA revision is final - we don't know this yet however. Regardless, small tweaks for efficiency or aesthetics are likely to follow in future batches.

@kugiigi - Marius was using a (terribly crude and hand assembled) 1GB dev version of the Tablet in the video [edit] 2GB version. I also believe that his demo ran from a SD card and not internal eMMC flash. Answering your implicit question: you can expect the production version to run slightly better due to more RAM + running from eMMC

[kugiigi]

@PINE64 Yes, that's actually what I'm going to say. if it only has 1GB of RAM then the demo video becomes much more impressive. I did not see serious slow downs and not even crashes on it. I would expect something like that would have happened on a bq E5 which also has 1 GB of RAM

[PINE64]

@kugiigi ... also do keep in mind these are Lima GPU drivers, under constant development. There are also tweaks to be made to other components and their kernel / dts settings. The PineTab will never be a speed-demon, but will ultimately perform (much) better than shown in the video.

[Keneda]

@kugiigi said in PineTab Anyone?:

Yeah, I think it's unfair to expect Pine64 to provide wide variation/configuration on their products.

It's only a keyboard layout dude...
We, unfair people, are even willing to pay an extra (i.e 20 box) for having this.

And such unfair option can be achieved in a simple way like making blank keyboards pine devices, and then printing the final layout in pine64 facilities, or even, like mentionned before, a good quality sticker layout.

[AppLee]

@Keneda said in PineTab Anyone?:

And such unfair option can be achieved

No need to be rude and imply things.
We all get your point but you don't know the specifics. So if @PINE64 tells that it costs and is not a deal breaker for most people you'll have to trust it.

@poVoq made a suggestion and depending on Pine64's answer to that you'll have to find a sticker pack or deal with a qwerty keyboard.

Please don't make it personal, I know English is not your native language and maybe things got lost in translation, but watch your tone.

[kugiigi]

@Keneda I'm not int he business so I can't really say how simple it is but they already mentioned the reasons here and I believe them so in my understanding, it's not simple.

[trainailleur]

The internet is full of businesses selling keyboard sticker packs for alternative languages and layouts. I don't see any reason why Pine64 should need to take on distraction of doing this.

Yes, it's nice to have a keyboard that is printed with one's preferred layout, but Pine64 is a small company who must maintain a streamlined product lineup in order to turn a profit.

[PINE64]

For the PBP we have considered both key cap stickers and empty keyboards which users could populate according to their need (the controller is open sourced, so you can program it to do whatever you wish). Not completely sure if either is really feasible with Pinetab keyboard ... would have to check.

Regardless, on a fundamental level the problem with both options is user-error and subsequent support nightmare for us. This is in general why we refrain from e.g. selling a PinePhone DIY kit ... we know people want to do DIY stuff, and I fully understand why it would be 'fun' to do this sort of stuff, but we also know that if end-users mess something up during assembly, we'll end up drowning in support tickets. Keyboard sticker sets and really delicate cap-hinges seem like something that will break frequently.

... You are welcome to try to convince me otherwise of course.