Ubuntu Touch Q&A 115 Is This Saturday At 19:00 UTC

nogoogle · 14 Jan 2022, 02:50

@nero355 I recently tried Mobian and PostmarketOS on Pinephone (out of frustration about inactive development on UT). Both OS have the mobile version of Firefox as default browser which was another reason for me to give it a try. Did you ever try to manage the Firefox settings on one of these OS's ? Not usable in real life for me. Same thing trying to setup Nextcloud via Web (I use 2FA for my cloud so I need to go via website): impossible to navigate (need to rotate phone change zoom etc).
While I agree with you that tab management is way easier than with Morph, the idea of using applications from standard repositories will not work for non-geek users and result in poor user experience.
So unless someone steps up to port the mobile version of Firefox specifically to UT (which I do not think will happen any time soon because you probably need an army of devs to pull that off) Morph - for me - remains the only workable solution for now.

nero355 · 14 Jan 2022, 17:22

@nogoogle said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 115 Is This Saturday At 19:00 UTC:

I recently tried Mobian and PostmarketOS on Pinephone (out of frustration about inactive development on UT). Both OS have the mobile version of Firefox as default browser which was another reason for me to give it a try. Did you ever try to manage the Firefox settings on one of these OS's ?

No phone to run them on so... NOPE

Not usable in real life for me.

Like I already said : Firefox for Android works just fine!

Much better than Google Chrome and has it's flaws, but IMHO still the best mobile browser out there, despite the horrible changes introduced in the latest revision when they went from Fennec to Fennix if I remember correctly...

Same thing trying to setup Nextcloud via Web (I use 2FA for my cloud so I need to go via website): impossible to navigate (need to rotate phone change zoom etc).

That's a totally different issue that bothers me for many years now :

Why the heck did we got rid of the stylus for our phones ?!

When I had a Samsung Note II the thing was a perfect solution for such issues!

While I agree with you that tab management is way easier than with Morph

NICE!

the idea of using applications from standard repositories will not work for non-geek users and result in poor user experience.

I think you meant non-standard ?!

So unless someone steps up to port the mobile version of Firefox specifically to UT (which I do not think will happen any time soon because you probably need an army of devs to pull that off)

I believe someone is already working on it here at the forum in another thread ?!

Morph - for me - remains the only workable solution for now.

I am not saying it's a bad browser, but I am saying it really needs a lot of improvement!

AppLee · 14 Jan 2022, 19:35

Question for the Q&A:
Is it possible/planned to allow users to deactivate the 2G connectivity.
This feature is pushed by Google and in progress by Apple in order to protect the user against 2G vulnerabilities like IMSI catchers.

domubpkm · 14 Jan 2022, 21:28

@applee said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 115 Is This Saturday At 19:00 UTC:

IMSI catchers.

Do you really think to be able to deactivate 2G will solve the question of IMSI catchers ?

MrT10001 · 15 Jan 2022, 09:41

Following on from last week where we had an excellent explanation on the way forward and what devices may get left behind on development, so some questions:

With new devices it is becoming more difficult to unlock boot loaders on certain devices under the guise of "manufacturers security". If this continues we may have no devices to install UT on as manufacturers will make it impossible (Huawei as an example, but can see Xiaomi going this way). Also from this the ability to get the correct Android ROM in order for UT to work is diminishing as the manufacturers are now putting steps in to prevent downgrading. How are developers going to circumvent this without lobbying Governments to prevent this manufacturers practice?
Is there going to be a core application push before a device is ready for the installer? Example, if the device is a phone, ensuring all phone applications work, SMS, MMS work, camera works, WiFi works, then look at other applications such as Waydroid, games etc. This would mean a functioning phone, then all the smart bits could be developed further down the line?

Just some ideas (MrT10001 - Ten Thousand and one)

mateo_salta · 15 Jan 2022, 14:52

App roundup:

3rdperson from Gabriele Vidali: a interesting full 3d game demo that shows off some possibilities of the Godot game engine.

attah · 15 Jan 2022, 15:30

I noted that @fredldotme forked SeaPrint. So i guess you are looking in to adding printing to Ubuntu Touch.
I'm not planning on leaving Sailfish, but no need to hard-fork... Can't we work together?

fredldotme · 15 Jan 2022, 15:40

@attah I'd be more than happy to work together and keep the name SeaPrint for sure. It needs some massive changes to building the thing and its dependencies though, so I thought at first that a hard-fork would be justified. Let's have a chat here in DMs if you want.

AppLee · 16 Jan 2022, 00:16

@domubpkm

The 3G wireless standard offers some risk mitigation due to mutual authentication required from both the handset and the network.[2] However, sophisticated attacks may be able to downgrade 3G and LTE to non-LTE network services which do not require mutual authentication

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI-catcher

nero355 · 16 Jan 2022, 00:20

@mrt10001 said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 115 Is This Saturday At 19:00 UTC:

Following on from last week where we had an excellent explanation on the way forward and what devices may get left behind on development, so some questions:

Where can I find that explanation ?!

IIRC the question was avoided and answered with totally different details than the ones we asked for ?!

With new devices it is becoming more difficult to unlock boot loaders on certain devices under the guise of "manufacturers security". If this continues we may have no devices to install UT on as manufacturers will make it impossible (Huawei as an example, but can see Xiaomi going this way).

I don't think Xiaomi will do that but Huawei has done it already for some years and I can see Samsung doing the same, because they already do it partially! :pouting_face:

Also from this the ability to get the correct Android ROM in order for UT to work is diminishing as the manufacturers are now putting steps in to prevent downgrading.

For now it seems that as long as you can flash a phone in Fastboot Mode that there is no issue at all!

But it is something to worry about since the technology and trend is already there...

Is there going to be a core application push before a device is ready for the installer? Example, if the device is a phone, ensuring all phone applications work, SMS, MMS work, camera works, WiFi works, then look at other applications such as Waydroid, games etc. This would mean a functioning phone, then all the smart bits could be developed further down the line?

I think we should really start ignoring the whole Waydroid dependency and focus on Native Ubuntu Touch Apps and Applications!

If you want to run Android Apps then you might as use Android on your phone...
And since the many deGoogled Android ROM options exist it doesn't even need to be the original Stock Android ROM your phone was shipped with!

MrT10001 · 16 Jan 2022, 09:07

@nero355 I started writing a big response, but it tailed off to something that was pretty irrelevant to your response.
My previous question was explained in the Q&A 114, I think the main gist was the lack of developers or people who are going to maintain UT for older devices, which I really do get. I see why Canonical dropped UT as it is not a viable option cost wise but also people wise. At the end of the day you have to use your developers in an area that is going to make the company money and when you are competing with Google and Apple, you aren't going to win - Microsoft is a good example of that. Canonical did the right thing and threw it open to UBports for enthusiasts to take it on, which they have done with great gusto.

The other thing is I bet all the core developers get asked this all the time and when an upstart like myself asks the question, it is a case of here we go again and of course why don't you get into porting/ development. That is what i would like to do, I have a day job though that really takes up the majority of time (like probably most others) and when I started with processors on the Z80a, I have forgotten all the machine code and BASIC programming I did back then, life has really taken over.

@nero355 , I am with you on the Waydroid thing. Why try to run when we have just started walking. I think UT has become a bit fractious in its direction, it is trying to get too many devices to be ported onto - which is good, but has caused over extension.

I could go on, but I am beginning to digress... Again!

Talkless · 16 Jan 2022, 09:13

Q/A question:

Why Bitcoin donation method is removed?

While UBPorts delivers freedom in the mobile computing sphere, Bitcoin on another hand provides similar freedoms in financial sphere (by being open, borderles, cencorship-resistant, neutral, etc, etc, also ran by FOSS and tenths of thousands volunteers) - a nice cooperation, ideologically, unless there is regulatory pressure for non-profit to avoid cryptocurrencies..?

Thanks!

Lakotaubp · 16 Jan 2022, 09:23

@talkless
Edit.
Please see here https://forums.ubports.com/topic/7204/views-on-an-alternative-source-of-funding-via-tokens for possible reason why the Foundation cannot use this method or similar. Also this Q&A is finished your question will get missedthe next should be in two weeks time.

Keneda · 16 Jan 2022, 11:41

@lakotaubp said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 115 Is This Saturday At 19:00 UTC:

Please see here

Where ?

Lakotaubp · 16 Jan 2022, 12:08

@keneda The link Thanks

Lakotaubp · 16 Jan 2022, 12:51

@nero355 and @MrT10001 JFI WayDroid is now a totally seperate project to UBports and UT and as such is not a drain on resources.
As to whether it is good idea to run android apps on UT that is down to the individual themselves and in some cases maybe a way to avoid carrying two phones about. Don't forget in some places certain apps are all most if not already a requirement (covid ones for example). WayDroid maybe a good answer.

cliffcoggin · 16 Jan 2022, 13:01

Thank you for releasing the list of legacy phones that will be supported by UB Ports after 20-04. I regret the Nexus 5 is excluded, but it is good to have some definite information on which to base a new purchase.

Moem · 16 Jan 2022, 14:20

@cliffcoggin said in Ubuntu Touch Q&A 115 Is This Saturday At 19:00 UTC:

Thank you for releasing the list of legacy phones that will be supported by UB Ports after 20-04.

Where can I find that list please? I've listened to the entire Q&A but I still don't know which devices will be supported.

...Ooooh. wait... I think I get it. That was sneaky!

MrT10001 · 16 Jan 2022, 15:16

@lakotaubp I gather Waydroid is, but I have already had someone quite fervently pushing it when I recommended a basic device to get started on UT - in my opinion if you are starting out, start with the basics. Android apps is a nice "to have" but not vital for the core of UT yet.

stanwood · 16 Jan 2022, 18:13

@mrt10001 I think it all depends on the user's needs.
Being able to install some Android applications on Ubuntu Touch is a benefit, not a requirement. This can be very useful in a professional context.

As @lakotaubp said very well, the development of WayDroid is not supported by the foundation, although some adjustments and patches may be necessary.
This also summarizes what Florian said last night at Q&A 115.

Freedom is indeed the motivating factor of GNU/Linux and that's why I like it.